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	Name:	MartiniMan -
	Subject:	Obama Losing Independents
	Date:	9/9/2009 8:28:21 AM

First of all I am not trying to bait you or start a debate for the sake of argument. I am truly mystified by so-called independents and quite frankly skeptical of many of them really being independent. Let me be perfectly clear, I don't believe ALL independents were duped. I am convinced that a good many them are really liberals that just don't want to admit what they are. They weren't duped because Obama/Reid/Pelosi are exactly the kind of politicians they like.

Here's my issue with many (not all) self identified "independents". They lack cohesive core values. And by cohesive I mean they are all over the place. They oppose government in certain of their pet peeve areas but are all for an intrusive over-reaching government in other areas. They oppose certain kinds of confiscatory taxes but are all for other kinds of taxes that suit their personal opinions on this or that issue. It's not that they don't believe in things, its just that their beliefs are discordant and belie any core values. Now these independents will tell you they are the wise ones, they are above ideology. But the fact is they simply have their own ideology, the party of the me, the here and the now. Who I vote for depends on the direction that the winds are blowing, who's up and who's down, who's views fit my current set of opinions, etc.

I have core conservative beliefs that I hold because I have thoroughly examined the issues and have come to believe based on facts, a study of history, logical interpretation and analysis that conservative values are what is best for our country and what our founding fathers intended. Other of our liberal posters will call that mindless but nothing can be further from the truth. That is why on every issue I present facts (those stubborn things) that refute their emotion-based views. This usually results in insults and ad hominem attacks when they are devastated by the truth but I don't mind. It's just that Independents (and especially liberals) believe so much that isn't so (paraphrasing Reagan).

As for your point about disillusionment with Republicans and their profligate spending as justification for your vote for Obama or whatever liberal politician, it simply proves my point about what it wrong with independents. You were angry about Republican's spending and so you lashed out and elected a bunch of leftists that are now destroying our financial well being for a generation or more (and I would point out as predicted by so many on the right during the election). Explain to me how that makes sense?!?!? If you were so against the deficits how on earth can you justify voting for Obama knowing he had a Dem-controlled Congress to work with? It makes no sense, it is discordant. So either you weren't really opposed to the outrageous spending or the deficits, only what Bush chose to spend the money on or what you did makes absolutely zero sense. It is the old saw of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If you had core beliefs on the subject like I do you would have held your nose and voted for McCain simply because he was the much lesser of the two evils. If you had those core beliefs what you would do is fight for true conservative Republicans because finding a Democrat that is a fiscal conservative is hopeless. But instead you and many others made an illogical decision, or alternatively controlling the size, scope and breadth of the federal government is not really a core belief. Which is it because there is no reasonable third conclusion?