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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
unearned income tax
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Date:
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3/12/2010 9:23:30 AM
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Pelosi said the legislation will eliminate 80 percent of an excise tax on high-priced insurance plans in the Senate measure and replace the lost revenue with a Medicare PAYROLL TAX ON UNEARNED INCOME.
Hmmm… a PAYROLL tax on income not derived from a payroll. OH! That would be the money you invested for retirement. Get ready seniors. Now, YOU are going to pay as well as your children and grandchildren. This would not hit retired government workers as hard as retired private sector workers as the government retirement income is NOT derived from personal investments.
The growth on your retirement savings is going to be taxed to pay for government health care if Nancy Pelosi has her way.
WHAT ELSE IS IN THIS HEINOUS BILL?
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
unearned income tax
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Date:
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3/12/2010 1:11:11 PM
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M-RET has hit on an interestng , little talked about, item in the house plan.
-At the moment this tax will not ( errr, not supposed to anyway) hit 401K's savings (see below article). But this is the foot in the door. AS medical costs mount, 401Ks will probably be fair game.
-It will be like social security became fair game. People are taxed to put money into teh social security fund. Now alot of people have to pay taxes on teh money they now get from social security. So your social security money is twice taxed. Then when the government gets to "means testing" your social security in the next few years, you'll be taxed out of it a third time.
-Back to unearned income tax. In below article, the tax starts out for people making over $200,000 a year. Thus this tax is another attempt to pit the classes against each other. Secondly, the house came up with this source of money so they wouldn't have to tax teh Cadillac health care plans, or in other words, they wouldn't have to upset their union constuency, ...more class warfare.
-Do you think many people are aware of this, or even care? If you're making less than $200,000 then it's not your problem. But in 10 years from now when alot more people are making $200K because of the coming inflation of the dollar, a lot of people will care, ..but then it's too late.
-Here's the article
By Jia Lynn Yang, writerMarch 11, 2010: 11:49 AM ET
WASHINGTON (Fortune) -- The big talk on Capitol Hill may be about health-care reform, but as part of this massive undertaking, the Democrats are quietly reshaping the tax system too. Tucked inside President Obama's latest health-care proposal is a major change to the Medicare tax.
Since its conception, the Medicare tax has always been tied to payrolls. Every paycheck, employers and employees each chip in 1.45%, regardless of how much someone makes. Under Obama's proposal -- which should be very close to what Congress winds up enacting -- a Medicare tax would now be applied to investment income too: Individuals who earn more than $200,000 and couples over $250,000 would pay an additional 2.9% surtax on unearned income from interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents.
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Two things happen here. The first one is that the Medicare tax would go from being a payroll tax (like Social Security) to an income tax.
"You can certainly make the argument that [payroll is] really not appropriate anymore and we may as well tax all income," says Howard Gleckman, a senior research associate at the Urban Institute and editor TaxVox, the center's tax and budget policy blog. "But this is kind of a back-door way to do it."
The Democrats found their way to this "back door" because they couldn't agree on how to pay for the health-care bill: House Dems don't like the Senate's proposal to tax so-called Cadillac plans, and Senate Democrats don't like the House bill's inclusion of an income tax on the wealthy to pay for health care.
That paves the way for the second change. The Medicare tax has long been set at a flat rate -- the idea being that everyone pays into the system at the same rate and then receives the same amount of medical benefits later in life.
But by giving the Medicare tax the qualities of an income tax, Democrats can raise taxes on high-earners without explicitly calling it an income tax hike. The proposal also targets this group by adding 0.9% to their payroll portion of the Medicare tax too. Adding a tax just for households making over $250,000 would make the tax progressive for the first time.
The Obama administration says taxing the wealthy on unearned income is only fair because anyone who lives off their dividends and interest should have that money treated as wages too.
Gleckman points out that because the tax is being changed indirectly via health-care reform, the policy design is a bit unorthodox. "Usually we have tax brackets rather than this cliff, where suddenly if you make a dollar more you're subject to this additional tax," he says. But there are ways around it: Taxpayers who want to avoid getting bumped up to the higher rate could easily wait a little longer to sell their stock after the new-year cutoff.
0:00 /3:49Health care reform talk is cheap
The Center for Tax Justice points out the changes would only affect 2.3% of taxpayers in 2014. And the tax would not apply to income earned through tax-deferred retirement accounts.
Still, those higher-income taxpayers would foot a significant chunk of the bill's revenue streams. The non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that Obama's proposal to raise the Medicare payroll tax and expand the tax to unearned income would bring in $183.6 billion in revenues from 2010 to 2019. That's 44% of estimated total revenues needed to pay for health care, making it the biggest portion of all the proposed changes.
There is confusion over whether the Medicare tax on unearned income would apply to capital gains too. In Obama's proposal, the only forms of unearned income listed are interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents.
But the plan does make it clear that unearned income, not just wage income, is now fair game. If capital gains income is indeed included, the wealthy would effectively be facing a cap gains tax rate of 22.9%. (The rate is already due to go from 15% to 20% next year) As of this writing, the White House had not responded to a request for comment.
The Democrats have to figure out some way to pay for health care to pass their bill, and this "back-door" tax could be their best hope at a workable compromise. But as they consider how to reshape the country's medical system, watch out for how they're changing the tax system too. If Obama's proposal goes through, other taxes could start popping up in some new, unexpected places.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
unearned income tax
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Date:
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3/12/2010 9:30:02 PM
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It is interesting to read the Social Security website about the history of taxing your SS benefit. Guess who signed it into law????? From their website, "Congress passed and President Reagan signed into law the 1983 Amendments. Under the '83 Amendments, up to one-half of the value of the Social Security benefit was made potentially taxable income."
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
unearned income tax
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Date:
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3/13/2010 1:24:21 AM
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-Playing the "Party" game can get one in trouble.
-As an independent, I don't care which party screws teh public, I don't like it. Congress as a whole are a craven group, as teh recent bribes-for-votes for health care has shown.
-back to screwing with social security: Personally, I don't believe in teh concept of social security. However, once passed, I believe that congress should try to abide by the original concept. Teh social security the congress passed in teh 1930's is no longer the social security we have today, ---not by a long shot.
-The 1983 changes mentioned above: I'm old enough to have lived and read about these changes as they happened. Further, I lived in DC at the time. So this kind of news was local news, --on teh TV every night, in the paper every day, and the cast of characters was well known by almmost everyone. Yes Reagan signed those tax changes, a black eye for teh conservative movement. But the driving force for those tax changes was teh House, and the house was ruled by the dems. the senate was republican by about 6 or 7 votes. It relly didn't play much in this financial battle. The real battle for these changes was done in teh dem controlled house.
-Now the worst thing that has ever happened to SS was in 1965 when President Johonson signed a bill passed by teh dem-controlled senate and house that took SS monies out of the SS trust fund and put these monies in the general fund. The rationale was that the fund had so much money that it would never use it all, and by putting it in the general fund teh budget could be balanced. But worse, teh congress began taking money out of teh ss bucket and repaying it with worthless IOUs. This one act of short-term thinking is what ruined social security and caused most all teh funding problems we have today....and tomorrow.
-As I have explained in previous posts and won't bore anyone again, I will have to be 82 before I get back all the money I and my employers have put into social security, ---and that doesn't include any interest that I would have accrued over the last 40 years if I myself had saved this money for my retirement. Probably most of you ae in the same boat.
-congress has to be controlled or they will bankrupt this nation.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Thats one example of a Republican
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Date:
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3/13/2010 10:31:20 AM
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Now lets talk about the 5,000 examples of Demoncrats raising taxes...or 10,000......let's talk about the Demoncrats $1.6 trillion deficit when they had absolute power over our government.
You see that's the problem with you constantly pointing out the exceptions when Republicans make a mistake as if that justifies the rule of Demoncrats always making that same mistake. You see GF, if its wrong to raise taxes it is always wrong regardless of whether it is a Dem doing what they do best and loving it or a Republican getting off the reservation.
As for your specific example, Reagan and the GOP-controlled Senate sadly had to compromise with the Dems that controlled the House and could filibuster in the Senate by allowing means testing for taxing SS benefits. I can assure you left to their own devices they would have NEVER proposed this. But in order to get the tax cuts that fueled 20 years of economic growth they agreed to this particular increase as well as some other Dem-inspired requirements to get it through the House.
What we also got was an increase in spending likewise foisted on us by the Dems in the House that fueled the increase in deficits. How do I know this? Because after the Reagan tax cuts revenue to the government actually INCREASED as predicted but sadly spending outpaced the increase in revenue and hence the deficits. I could refer you to some historically accurate books about this but it would be a waste of time.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Thats one example of a Republican
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Date:
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3/13/2010 10:38:10 AM
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MM ... consider the source. Has GF ever posted anything that does not have spin to try and support his socialist views and a failing administration?
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| Name: |
Lighthouse
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| Subject: |
unearned income tax
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Date:
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3/13/2010 7:53:01 PM
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Do you know how to spell "the"
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Hey Lighthouse
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Date:
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3/13/2010 8:26:59 PM
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Do you know how to spell "the"
Do you know how to use a question mark??????????????????????
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
unearned income tax
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Date:
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3/13/2010 9:07:38 PM
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-Apparently not!
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Hey Lighthouse
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Date:
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3/13/2010 9:09:24 PM
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Thank you GF
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| Name: |
Lighthouse
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| Subject: |
Hey Lighthouse
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Date:
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3/14/2010 9:34:42 PM
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Thanks GF, I deserved that.
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