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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:22:23 PM
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Read the following and imagine the hue and cry if a Republican-leaning state engaged in this kind of voter fraud. Instead it looks like Minnesota will send this pornographer and failed comedian to the Senate. Nothing could be more a appropriate statement about Democrats, the state of Minnesota and our current Senate. Read below and decide for yourself. Count every vote?? What a joke the Democrat party is!!
Funny Business in Minnesota
In which every dubious ruling seems to help Al Franken.
Strange things keep happening in Minnesota, where the disputed recount in the Senate race between Norm Coleman and Al Franken may be nearing a dubious outcome. Thanks to the machinations of Democratic Secretary of State Mark Ritchie and a meek state Canvassing Board, Mr. Franken may emerge as an illegitimate victor.
Mr. Franken started the recount 215 votes behind Senator Coleman, but he now claims a 225-vote lead and suddenly the man who was insisting on "counting every vote" wants to shut the process down. He's getting help from Mr. Ritchie and his four fellow Canvassing Board members, who have delivered inconsistent rulings and are ignoring glaring problems with the tallies.
Under Minnesota law, election officials are required to make a duplicate ballot if the original is damaged during Election Night counting. Officials are supposed to mark these as "duplicate" and segregate the original ballots. But it appears some officials may have failed to mark ballots as duplicates, which are now being counted in addition to the originals. This helps explain why more than 25 precincts now have more ballots than voters who signed in to vote. By some estimates this double counting has yielded Mr. Franken an additional 80 to 100 votes.
This disenfranchises Minnesotans whose vote counted only once. And one Canvassing Board member, State Supreme Court Justice G. Barry Anderson, has acknowledged that "very likely there was a double counting." Yet the board insists that it lacks the authority to question local officials and it is merely adding the inflated numbers to the totals.
In other cases, the board has been flagrantly inconsistent. Last month, Mr. Franken's campaign charged that one Hennepin County (Minneapolis) precinct had "lost" 133 votes, since the hand recount showed fewer ballots than machine votes recorded on Election Night. Though there is no proof to this missing vote charge -- officials may have accidentally run the ballots through the machine twice on Election Night -- the Canvassing Board chose to go with the Election Night total, rather than the actual number of ballots in the recount. That decision gave Mr. Franken a gain of 46 votes.
Meanwhile, a Ramsey County precinct ended up with 177 more ballots than there were recorded votes on Election Night. In that case, the board decided to go with the extra ballots, rather than the Election Night total, even though the county is now showing more ballots than voters in the precinct. This gave Mr. Franken a net gain of 37 votes, which means he's benefited both ways from the board's inconsistency.
And then there are the absentee ballots. The Franken campaign initially howled that some absentee votes had been erroneously rejected by local officials. Counties were supposed to review their absentees and create a list of those they believed were mistakenly rejected. Many Franken-leaning counties did so, submitting 1,350 ballots to include in the results. But many Coleman-leaning counties have yet to complete a re-examination. Despite this lack of uniformity, and though the state Supreme Court has yet to rule on a Coleman request to standardize this absentee review, Mr. Ritchie's office nonetheless plowed through the incomplete pile of 1,350 absentees this weekend, padding Mr. Franken's edge by a further 176 votes.
Both campaigns have also suggested that Mr. Ritchie's office made mistakes in tabulating votes that had been challenged by either of the campaigns. And the Canvassing Board appears to have applied inconsistent standards in how it decided some of these challenged votes -- in ways that, again on net, have favored Mr. Franken.
The question is how the board can certify a fair and accurate election result given these multiple recount problems. Yet that is precisely what the five members seem prepared to do when they meet today. Some members seem to have concluded that because one of the candidates will challenge the result in any event, why not get on with it and leave it to the courts? Mr. Coleman will certainly have grounds to contest the result in court, but he'll be at a disadvantage given that courts are understandably reluctant to overrule a certified outcome.
Meanwhile, Minnesota's other Senator, Amy Klobuchar, is already saying her fellow Democrats should seat Mr. Franken when the 111th Congress begins this week if the Canvassing Board certifies him as the winner. This contradicts Minnesota law, which says the state cannot award a certificate of election if one party contests the results. Ms. Klobuchar is trying to create the public perception of a fait accompli, all the better to make Mr. Coleman look like a sore loser and build pressure on him to drop his legal challenge despite the funny recount business.
Minnesotans like to think that their state isn't like New Jersey or Louisiana, and typically it isn't. But we can't recall a similar recount involving optical scanning machines that has changed so many votes, and in which nearly every crucial decision worked to the advantage of the same candidate. The Coleman campaign clearly misjudged the politics here, and the apparent willingness of a partisan like Mr. Ritchie to help his preferred candidate, Mr. Franken. If the Canvassing Board certifies Mr. Franken as the winner based on the current count, it will be anointing a tainted and undeserving Senator.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:53:11 PM
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I agree .... and what an embarrasement to the democrats to have Al Franken as a senator.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/5/2009 1:28:14 PM
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Spent quite a bit of time in Minnesota a few years ago and it is a very blue state... I think the majority of Minnesotians would be horrified to be represented by a Republican. Kinda like Alabama in reverse... LOL
And MM, don't be saying bad things about NJ or you might get your knee caps broken... LOL (I'm from NJ and I know a guy who knows a guy.... LOL)
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/5/2009 2:26:11 PM
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But they were represented by a republican and he won again until they decided to change the results.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/5/2009 2:44:13 PM
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Hound: It is a very blue state although they had Coleman and Pawlenty in state-wide positions who are both Republicans but is still a challenging environment for Republicans. As for the New Jersey comments I just copied the article so I can't take credit (or blame) but it does remind me of a NJ joke about them getting first pick for either the most lawyers or landfills and they chose the latter. I spent a fair amount of time in NJ and with the exception of northern NJ is a lovely state although interestingly it is the most populous state per square mile.
While Minnesota is a blue state by all appearances the Senate seat is being stolen from Coleman and given to a man who is an awful person who I think will be a complete disgrace and will make Minnesotans look like the rubes they for letting corrupt Democrats commit this atrocity.
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| Name: |
Lady
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/5/2009 2:54:47 PM
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After Jesse Ventura, I wouldn't think embarrassment would be new.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/5/2009 6:03:42 PM
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I like Al Franken .... some of his humor over the years has been extremely blue, but I'm an adult. Some of his humor I have found very entertaining ..... some, not so much.
He was good friends with the former MN senator who was killed in a plane crash - Paul Wellstone, who I liked a lot. For all his comedy and satire, Franken is actually very well educated and is generally thought of as a well informed liberal. I'm not particularly liberal, but I don't feel embarassed if Franken gets the seat.
As far as the recount, no matter how it comes out - one side is going to cry foul. I have no way of knowing who is right and who is wrong. And I don't think anyone else here in Alabama knows either.
My two cents.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/5/2009 8:00:26 PM
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what experience as a comedian or anything else qualifies him to be a US senator? You can like him all you want, but these are people that establish laws that we live by ... don't you feel we deserve better than a comedian. Most democrats are a joke anyway, but at least some of them have some qualifications to be there. What qualifies Al?
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
What qualifies Al?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 9:09:22 PM
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Let's try again...
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Date:
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1/5/2009 9:10:50 PM
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What qualifies Al?
He's ugly to the bone!
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/6/2009 12:39:29 AM
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What qualifies Jefff Sessions? What qualifies Dick Shelby? What qualifies Ted Kennedy? What qualifiies Barack Obama? What qualifies Hillary Clinton? The Senate is made up of a wide range of people who share the quality that they have never really done anything. We don't have Senator Bill Gates ... or Senator Steve Jobs ..... or Senator Warren Buffet ..... Al Franken is just as qualified as any other U.S. Senator.
My two cents.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/6/2009 12:52:23 AM
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I meant to say that Al Franken is just as UNqualified as any other US Senator.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Nice ring to it........
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Date:
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1/6/2009 9:32:39 AM
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A blue humorist for a blue state............or said another way Porno Freako Franken, Senator from Minn. James Carville has made the prdiction that the Dems will be the scandal party.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/6/2009 9:50:57 AM
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Your belief that Al Franken is just as qualified as many of the people you listed shows just how far we have sunk into the celebrity culture. Why not Paris Hilton or Brittany Spears? How about Tom Cruise? I am sure you think he would be great as well.
Let me ask you a different question. What has Al Franken done or accomplished in his life that would lead you to believe he should be one of 100 Senators that make serious decisions about little things like our our national security or our economy? It is absolutely mind boggling to me that otherwise intelligent people care so little about the effectiveness of our government that they would support someone like him.
He is a pornographer who incompetently ran AIr America into the ground (including not paying employment taxes). He has no political experience other than writing hate filled books about conservatives. He is a failed former businessman. He is profane, wildly volatile and violent and will be a disgrace. But I guess those are all resume enhancers for a Democrat.
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| Name: |
Dixie Drifter
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/6/2009 11:18:14 AM
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The citizenry of Minnesota will send an individual to the U.S. Senate accepting the final results as "validated" by a process, using such non-partisan groups as; ballot recounts by unbiased local election officials, reviews by the state canvassing board, decisions by the Minnesota State Supreme Court, and last, a full blown court challenge by Mr. Coleman. In plain english, this translates as follows, "you get what you pay for".
As an outsider, not born and bred in Minnesota, it appears from my vantage point that a majority of Minnesotans support a dis-functional system for performing timely, accurate, and honest ballot recounts. Stated another way, I would surmise that most Minnesota voters take the position, "so what can I do about it?" and move on.
This time around, Minnesota is under the spotlight, who knows, in the future maybe the state of Alabama will gain notoriety at the national level, with some of the "home cookin" vote tabulations we are locally famous for.
The jokes on late night television and perceptions about Minnesota election procedures will ultimately subside and things there will return to normal. Realistically, I don't think that Al Franken, or Norm Coleman, will set the world on fire during a term of service in the U.S. Senate. Most of us would agree, that both legislative bodies serving the American people have demonstrated repeatedly over the years, an inability to craft any useful legislation which improves the lives, or welfare of our citizens.
Stay tuned to the MSM, there will be many interesting developments at comedy central, oops, I meant the upcoming call to order of our U. S. Senate.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/6/2009 1:41:01 PM
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Al Franken graduated from Harvard University. He recently served as a fellow at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard.
He has been nominated for seven Emmy awards and won three for writing and producing.
He has written 5 books that made the NYT best seller list, three of them going to #1.
He has been politically active since the 60's and was close friends with highly regarded Paul Wellstone, Senator from MN..
He has done seven USO tours.
I'm not saying he will be the best Senator we've ever had. I'm just saying we don't have to be embarassed to have him in the Senate.
I think your problem is more with his very liberal views - not really that he isn't qualified.
My two cents.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Oxymoron
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Date:
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1/6/2009 2:36:03 PM
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Political qualifiacations, theres one for ya.
Term limits is the ONLY solution.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Oxymoron
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Date:
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1/6/2009 4:48:17 PM
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Sorry Swimmer .... I didn't understand your post. Please clarify. Thanks.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Duh ... I just got it
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Date:
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1/6/2009 4:50:21 PM
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Oxymoron - political qualifications .... now I get it.
I am all for term limits.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
What I'm wondering
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Date:
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1/6/2009 4:54:57 PM
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Is why it seems like it is literally impossible to have any kind of recount in any state that people feel confident about. It seems like every time there is a recount, it becomes fodder for late night comedy. And in the end, everyone feels cheated. What do you do in a close election?
Sadly, I have to agree that it's probably not going to amount to much whether Coleman or Franken serves. It's really sad.
It's not just the Dems that have scandals. It's just their turn right now. Very disappointing when your elected official are a joke and no longer role models.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Minnesota is a Joke
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Date:
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1/6/2009 8:33:17 PM
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Uh huh, you are right that I object to him because he is a liberal but I would also object to him because he is a pornographer, because he is a volatile and violent man and because he didn't have the skills to run a business. I would no more support a Republican with his background than I would a liberal but again, these are all resume enhancers for a Democrat. I find your list of accomplishments pretty funny and a little sad if you think that makes him suitable for the position. And as for your two cents worth, I'd drop it a penny.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
What I'm wondering
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Date:
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1/6/2009 8:44:47 PM
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Hound: Just curious, but other than the fact that he is a Republican maybe you can educate us all on what is wrong with Norm Coleman. You seem to equate he and Al Franken which I find ridiculous to even make the comparison. I am just wondering if you make it with any basis in fact, and don't go out and do opposition research. You are already on the record stating that he is no better than Franken. What is your basis to have made those statements.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Y'All are missing the point
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Date:
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1/6/2009 8:48:18 PM
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HE WAS NOT ELECTED SENATOR OF MINNESOTA! It was stolen on his behalf by a bunch of corrupt Democrats. Don't you even have the intellectual curiosity to look at what they are doing?!?!?! Are you so blindly partisan that is doesn't matter to you?!?!? I know one maxim of liberalism is the end justifies the means but this seems like a more intelligent group that loves their country. Regardless of whether it is a Democrat or Republican it is wrong and you all seem to want to excuse it because you lean to the left. Sigh.....
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
What I'm wondering
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Date:
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1/7/2009 6:29:02 AM
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I have no opinion about Al Franken or Norm Coleman. Don't know much about either one of them, other than what I've read here. And I have to say, that their parties are of no particular interest to me. I happen to like the Gov of Minnesota very much, and would vote for him for national office.
My question was more esoteric -- what can be done about recounts that make people feel confident about their outcomes? This happens time and again and there doesn't appear to be a good solution.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
What I'm wondering
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Date:
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1/7/2009 1:21:55 PM
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I know this will shock you but I don't have a clue because the election process is handled by local government who are usually partisan in one way or another. One would hope for transparency and honesty in the process but the actions we are seeing in Minnesota prove that is not possible in most cases. I would say that there have been numerous recounts in the last election and this is the only one where there was a significant change in the outcome under the most dubious and fraudulent circumstances.
Maybe the answer is that when there is a recount run by Democrats we simply have to accept the fact that they will lie, cheat and steal. I guess I am wistfully hoping for some righteous indignation on the part of the electorate and media. It is no wonder the mainstream media is in the financial shambles it is.
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