Forum Thread

Lake Martin Topics

(Lake Martin Specific)

111,183 messages

Updated 6/9/2024 1:00:09 PM

Off-Topic

Lakes Online Forum

83,663 messages

Updated 6/10/2024 6:28:47 PM

Boat Maintenance

Lakes Online Forum

5,197 messages

Updated 6/10/2024 5:39:11 AM

Lake Martin Fishing

(Lake Martin Specific)

4,171 messages

Updated 5/29/2024 10:51:34 PM

Jokes

Lakes Online Forum

4,170 messages

Updated 6/10/2024 6:29:37 PM

Sports

Lakes Online Forum

4,261 messages

Updated 5/28/2024 6:31:10 AM

Grilling & Recipes

Lakes Online Forum

2,977 messages

Updated 6/10/2024 6:30:23 PM

Lake Martin SCUBA

(Lake Martin Specific)

169 messages

Updated 5/31/2023 1:39:35 PM

Tallapoosa River Topics

Lakes Online Forum

98 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 1:00:58 AM

Forum Usage Rules

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Secret Health Care Meetings
Date:	5/8/2009 11:38:25 AM

Be forewarned, Democrats in Congress are meeting in secret to develop their next assault on our freedom and wallets. It is apparent that they are going to propose a universal government health insurance program.

My prediction, if this passes we will see the following: 1) because this program will be paid by businesses in the form of much higher taxes all businesses, including mine, will drop company sponsored plans; 2) there will be no choice because the government sponsored program will be able to unfairly compete given the ability to use our tax dollars; 3) when they experience ever increasing costs associated with the program we will begin to experience rationing of health care services as government employees begin to decide the cost and benefit; 4) there will be a shortage of doctors that will accept government insurance patients and they will go to concierge programs that only the wealthy can afford; 5) state and federal employees (including those in Congress) will be exempted and will still be able to get their current insurance programs; and 6) the poor, low-income working and middle class will be screwed once again but Dems will find some way to blame greedy doctors or Republicans and the sycophantic media will play their role as useful idiots as usual.

Hound, make a note of my prediction. By the way, I just spent several days in our Toronto office and the horror stories of the Canadian health care system were amazing. Yet they all said, but its free! I pointed out the confiscatory taxes they pay and they said, yeah, there is that problem. This is what happens when you get a majority of people suckling at the government teet, it changes the electoral dynamics and gives power to big government.

Finally, despite the claims of bipartisanship there is not one single Republican involved in these discussions......unless you count Benedict Specter who can't remember what side he is on.

Name:	4691 -	Reply
Subject:	Secret Health Care Meetings
Date:	5/8/2009 12:47:58 PM

"...when you get a majority of people suckling at the government teet..."

When? It's already the case for the majority here in the U.S.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I'm trying to be upbeat
Date:	5/8/2009 1:52:28 PM

but you are right about that. Worse still is when the majority of working people don't pay taxes.

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	I'm trying to be upbeat
Date:	5/8/2009 4:49:31 PM

Working people? Neither that nor paying taxes are required to vote. Everyone - time for lock-step.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/8/2009 6:05:08 PM

with my health care. I doubt government employees will be exempt,government employees are the guinea pigs in their test bed when the Hill wants to experiment. While I was able to keep my health insurance into retirement, my payments are no longer subsidized by the government. Stil, I get the benefit of being part of a group plan and the lower costs (although the increase in premiums has been double digits for the past few years). This is essentially the same plan that Congress has.

I have a good friend in Canada, and am all too familiar with the horrors of their system.

I really don't see why they couldn't just allow families that don't have employer provided or subsidized health care to join into group plans, perhaps unrelated to work. No, this wouldn't be a "universal" solution for everyone -- Government run health care isn't a solution.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Martini, please tell me......
Date:	5/8/2009 7:44:06 PM

Currently, do you consider health care to be a privilege or a right in this great country??? Do you think it should continue that way or change in the future????

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Martini, please tell me......
Date:	5/8/2009 9:29:01 PM

GF, I'm not biting on your clever little worm (to use a fishing analogy). The issue is not whether there is a right to health care. The issue is whether we are better off or worse off with the Federal government in charge of health care and ultimately rationing health care. My answer is an unequivocal no to government control of health care!!!

Every country where the government is in charge of health care is an unmitigated disaster and Dems, in the never ending quest for power derived from obsequience to the government, will sell us all down the river for that power. As one of the people I was speaking to in Canada pointed out, their best hospital is called the United States. All the hospitals along the Canadian border advertise that they accept the Loonie.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/8/2009 9:31:27 PM

Hound, get ready because we told you it was coming with the Messiah and I can almost guarantee you he is going to turn this over to Pelosi and Reid like he did the budget. HOPEless and CHANGE for the worse and you voted for it.

I am stil waiting for their strategy to exempt government workers and congress. You watch, it will happen.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/8/2009 10:35:36 PM

Martini, I agree with you that I too do not want the government rationing healthcare. But, private insurance has refused to step up to the plate and provide affordable coverage for the masses. This is their right as a private business to refuse to provide coverage for pre exisiting conditions. Many young and healthy will refuse to pay for coverage for they see no reason to have coverage.

Medicare provides coverage for the senior population with restrictions for enrollment. You have ONE opportunity to enroll and be covered for all pre exisiting conditions. If you wait, you will be underwitten. The government does not control which physician you visit. The program is much broader on physician and hospital selection than any HMO, PPO, or other private program.

Initially, private insurance companies offered medicare supplement programs which they designed. People were confused and many purchased bad policies from unscrupulous agents. Finally, the government stepped in an designed 10 plans. Each company can sell as many of the 10 variations and price them accordingly. Competition has kept the prices competitive. We have a situation of govenment medicare with gaps and private programs filling in the gaps. Private industry contracts with the government to administer the Medicare claims. It is a positive approach to handling an insurance program that for all its problems still provides great coverage for seniors.

A program that allows private insurance to offer plans of their design and sold door to door by former mortgage brokers will lead to many people getting sold down the river. Greed will bring out all the used car sales type to become insurance agents. Those who suggest that we as Americans should be able to choose our coverage have never sat and tried to decipher various insurance policies. As a business owner, I assume you trust your insurance agent who handles many of your coverages for professional advice. Sadly, the average person does not have the interest or understanding of insurance to make those decisions. You select a health plan with few options for your emplyees. Do you really believe that your employees could sit across from competing agents and make the proper decision as to which plan and company will really deliver their coverage when they need it?

There is a place for government and private industry to deliver a plan. The government is not going to ration medical benefits. However, treatment will be rationed because we do not have enough primary physicians to treat everyone. The problem will be that the system can not handle universal coverage. We are a country that has treated a limited number of people successfully. When you add all the uninsured, the system may well break down and you will say"see I told you so". Those who argue that let's not tinker are really saying screw those without coverage cause I don't want them to clog up the system.

Name:	lamont -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/9/2009 8:41:42 AM

First of all very few of the "uninsured" in this country are denied treatment. See Grady Hospital in Atlanta. Secondly, although there are many who truly can't afford it, I know a rather large # of people who simply have other prioriies; you know, Direct TV with all the movie channels, Blackberries, etc. Blows me away.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	No, that's not what I'm saying
Date:	5/9/2009 8:50:44 AM

What I am saying is this -- I can afford the health care I have; it meets my needs; and I would hate to see the government mandate that everyone abandon their current plan and be forced into some socialized medicine program.

I do think there is a problem -- some working families do not have the option of joining a group plan, and individual health insurance is too expensive for them (or at least they perceive it is). I would like them to be able to get an affordable group plan under the same concept I (and Congress) have.

As far as the third group, the non-working, homeless, etc maybe the government needs to have some very basic subsidized program for them.

I agree that Medicare seems to work very well, except isn't the program just about bankrupt? Maybe the fix for it should be that people such as myself who have coverage they can afford should not be eligible for medicare. Maybe medicare should be reserved for those who worked and contributed, but were unable to carry private insurance into their retirement. In my situation, at 65 I go under medicare as my primary carrier and my paid insurance is my supplemental plan - interestingly enough, my premiums do not go down.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You forgot
Date:	5/9/2009 8:52:44 AM

the specialized ring tones on their cell phones for $9.99 a month. Blows me away too. Really makes you wonder about our society, doesn't it?

Name:	4691 -	Reply
Subject:	Is health care a right?
Date:	5/9/2009 9:12:04 AM

There is a whole lot of truth in what GoneFishin said - "Those who argue that let's not tinker are really saying screw those without coverage cause I don't want them to clog up the system." I think those who like to consider themselves fiscal conservatives, like me, do not want to answer the question about whether or not health care is a right. Why? Because the answer contradicts with core moral beliefs. Under the current system of health care, the answer is already given and it is "NO". But the government has for many years taken steps to ensure at least some level of FREE medical care is available to the poor [ever visit the emergency room]. On the other hand, the working poor through lower middle-classs may go without health care and are the most vulnerable to bankruptcy as a result. I'd like a solution that allows for health care for all, especially all that work for a living and their families, without the government being in total control. That does not mean I think that it is a right in the same context as freedom of speech. The number of unpopular decisions that should be tackled in order to solve this issue makes it likely that the solution will not be very good. Maybe someone on this forum has the solution!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/9/2009 9:14:52 AM

Tell me you are kidding about Medicare working well. And believe me I know this issue extremely well because my Mom who is 77 and lives with me relies on it. I pay thousands of dollars each year to cover the gap in this program, not to mention the cost of the Prescription Drug Program. Also, and the final nail in the Medicare coffin, is that it is headed to insolvency. What does that mean? HIGHER TAXES!

What you don't understand about a government plan, even if voluntary, is that soon no one will have a choice. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if there is a government plan my taxes are going up and consequently I am going to drop my company plan as will millions of other small businesses. I am not going to pay both.

And what is 100% clear from socialist countries like Canada, Great Britian, etc. is that there will be rationing because it is the only way the government can control costs. In some European countries that have legalized euthanasia senior citizens are terrified to go to the hospital because they are often euthanized. Great way for the government to save money on their health care.

Don't believe me, read Tom Daschle's book. He explains their thinking quite well and states explicitely that health care ddecisions should be made by a government employee that can weigh the costs versus the benefits. Your Mom too old? Sorry, that cancer therapy is just too expensive. She has to do the patriotic thing and go home and die.

That's the way it is and apparently we are stupid enough to go like sheep to the slaughter. Well I don't want that for my Mom or my wife or my children and I am fighting this slouch to socialism. You voted for it......

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Is health care a right?
Date:	5/9/2009 9:28:40 AM

If you are a fiscal conservative I suggest you do soe research about the issue. There is plenty of good information at the Heritage Foundation website. I can tell you that regardless of the true magnitude of the health care insurance problem in this country that turning to the government for the solution is exactly the wrong approach.

As Mark Steyn put it so well, once everyone depends on the federal government for their health care insurance we have forever changed our electoral dynamics. No more will there be true fiscal conservatism in government. It will be like Canada and the UK, which brand of socialism do you want? A socialist that beleives in a strong national defense or a socialist that doesn't?

Can you imagine you average American saying, "Yeah, I got lousy care but at least it was free!" That is wrong on so many fronts, not the least of which is that it wasn't free, someone paid for after government took their 30% off the top to "administer" it. Which means more governemnt jobs. As an aside, the US economy lost almost 600,000 jobs last month but government employment went up 66,000. And they tell us we need to tighten our belts while they gorge themselves on our hard earned money. It is absolutley disguisting.

Wake up people! You want a solution to an overstated propblem so badly that you are willing to make a pact with the devil.

Name:	4691 -	Reply
Subject:	Is health care a right?
Date:	5/9/2009 10:08:49 AM

MM - Thanks for the reference to the website. I'll take more time later to read in depth. I definitely agree govenrment run health care is not the answer. I also agree that the likely outcome will include higher taxes for those that pay taxes and higher prices for all so that business can cover the increased cost.

Name:	lotowner -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/9/2009 1:43:20 PM

One of our children is an OB GYN. There are week ends when he is on call where he delivers babies from women who have never had any pre natal care; single mothers where this is the fifth child; being interrupted during the exam while the mother is talking on her cell phone; and on and on. During these deliveries, he basically deliveries for free but yet is subject at any time to a malpractice suit.

If the mother can get to a delivery room, she is admitted and the baby is delivered. If issues arise with the baby and neo natal care is required, the baby stays until ready to go home. So, tell me where medical care is being denied in this country.

The only area that I can think of is where the medical procedures are elective such as plastic surgery, boob enlargements, cosmetic dentistry, etc.

Yet, families (including illegials)enjoy pharmaceutical coverage via medicaid; groceries via food stamps; school lunches; housing assistance; and now in Massachusets, the use of a free car.

So, what will the difference between universal health care and the current system?

Name:	lamont -	Reply
Subject:	Yes......
Date:	5/9/2009 1:48:16 PM

It certainly does hound.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/9/2009 1:55:36 PM

Martini, I am quite familiar with Medicare parts A and B. Part A covers hospital and B covers Physicians. Yes, there are gaps in coverage. There is 20% co insurance under part B that the insured has to pay. However, there are Medicare supplement programs available at reasonable costs ($75-145) month to fill in the gaps. The supplement prtograms only cover what Medicare covers and works quite well. Medicare sends the unpaid invoice direct to the Medicare Supplement insurance carrier who then reinburses the physician at the medicare agreed rates.

If your mom is facing large unreimbursed medical bills, it would indicate she does not have a Medicare supplement plan or the physician does not accept Medicare or the physician does not accept the amount Medicare reimburses.

As to the Drug Prescription plan, you seem upset that you are also paying for
the plan. If it were totally free it would be welfare. Of all people, I would expect you to be willing to pay for it on a voluntary basis. No one forces you to carry it for your mom.

My mom passed away in 2005 at age 95. Other than prescriptions and live in companions, I never paid a medical bill in the 10 years I handled her affairs. Medicare and her supplement plan covered everything.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/9/2009 3:08:08 PM

My father is 82, and he is under Medicare and has a supplemental policy. He doesn't ever pay anything either.

MM, your taxes are going up no matter what they do. The budget deficient will see to that.

It's not necessarily true that government jobs will increase if the government takes on health care. The government will likely contract it out -- this has been the trend for a number of years now. Of course, what this usually means is that you'll have one carrier for this 3 year period and another for the next 3 years.

I'm not so sure that age and liklihood of reecovery isn't in the equation with the current private insurance systems. And over a period of time, the insurance companies are cutting back on their allowances for procedures. I know my insurance, that used to pay 100% for diagnostic procedures are now paying only 80%. I don't worry so much about that, but I want good coverage if I have a serious illness like cancer. Of course, even then there are programs that the drug companies and research institutions and the cancer soceity have, if you cannot pay.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	I don't want them tinkering
Date:	5/9/2009 3:38:13 PM

Hound, traditionally insurance companies do not cut back from 100% to 80%. It is the employer who decides on that percent. In order to control costs, an employer will require that you the employee share in the cost. This can be with a deductible or co insurance such as 80%-20%.

I would suggest to you that the government as do large employers do not carry traditional insurance. Rather, they fund the program and the carrier pays the claims for a fee. The employer can provide as broad a program as they are willing to fund. Traditionally, they are provided options and recommendations to control costs.

Smaller companies are offered fully insured plans and select which options they want to offer from a menu of benefits. As premiums escalate a business owner will implement deductibles, co insurance, or higher employee share of premiums.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	As if on cue
Date:	5/9/2009 9:24:33 PM

Boy do I know socialists and liberals like the back of my hand! See the link below. Think the timing of this is coincidental? Dribbling out this news so when Reid and Pelosi announce their scheme most people will think they will be getting free health care on the backs of business and the rich. I am telling you I will drop my plan as will millions of small, medium and large businesses because we will not be forced to pay twice.

I have enough money that I can afford whatever health care I want but the mind-numbed sheep who voted for the Messiah will be the ones getting screwed and I don't feel the least bit sorry for them. They were warned.

URL: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/09/obama-propose-taxes-estates-firms-fund-health-care-reform/

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I have
Date:	5/9/2009 9:42:42 PM

Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I think that is pretty traditional. It's possible that they have had to cut back to meet the government's requirements to keep the cost down, but I don't know the particulars. All I know is how it affects my benefits. Cost to me went up 12% this past year.

Quick Links
Lake Martin News
Lake Martin Photos
Lake Martin Videos