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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Just a thought....
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Date:
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5/16/2007 11:26:03 AM
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All of the time, energy, commitment that I see going toward the pollution issue seems really misguided to me. Why hire lawyers and threaten lawsuits? Seems to me the only winners in that scenario are the lawyers. EVERYONE is aware of the problem. What is needed is action, and not in the courts but in the infrastructure. Instead of a legal fund, why not a fund to help with the needed upgrade? How many of you have ever even been to county commission meeting? A city council meeting? I understand, we all have lives. But what good does it do come here and complain? Several of you have indicated that you will make time for media appearances. Why take that same amount of time and meet with your county commissioner? Express your concerns directly instead of with veiled threats and media attention. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. These are local guys and gals that share the same concerns as you guys. THEY LIVE HERE TOO. Which is more than a lot of you guys can say. It is just your weekend playground.
From what I have read and seen, what you are seeing this year has NOTHING to do with the inadequate facilities. It is the same TREATED water that has always been released. It is just more visible this year due to decreased water flow from the drought conditions. The only violations that I remember seeing reported happened in times on the other extreme, heavy rainfall with excess runoff. THAT is the only times UNTREATED waste water was released. Without rain the only way to increase the flow through the creeks is to release more water downstream. Is that what you want? Before you answer remember that that means LOWER lake levels!!
I didn't post this just to 'stir the puddin' like a lot of my posts are. This is to put another perspective on the situation. IMHO, lawyers, threats and media are just going to cause the 'good ole boys' to circle the wagons in self-preservation mode, and start passing the buck. Not being able to 'comment' with ongoing litigation in progress. Is that what you want? Once again I reiterate that the problems this year are not due to inadequate facilities but inadequate rainfall.
A relevant quote:
"When everything is said and done, there is always lots more SAID than DONE."
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
Just a thought....
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Date:
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5/16/2007 12:17:04 PM
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You can not be serious? You really think showing up at a meeting will make a difference? This has been going on for a very long time and these "locals" as you say have NOT done a d@mn thing about it! Have you check the property taxes we are paying for lake property? I don't think any of us will aplogize for bringing whatever NEW pressure to bear is necessary to get action.
I am no fan of frivolous law suits or the media for that matter, but these "do nothing" commissioners need a fire lit under their collective good ole boy a$$e$! I have dealt with these guys many times and they are all too happy to take the d@mn out of town money for water lines, road improvements, etc. The sad fact is many of these "good old boys" do NOT have lake property and resent those of us who do and they are too d@amn stupid to realize what really is bringing economic development to the region.
We "stakeholders" on the Lake are starting to exert whatever pressure we need to exert to hold these politicians liable for their actions or inactions! Bring on the media...bring on the lawyers...bring on the Sierra Club...bring on anyone to embarrass, harrass, intimidate, force action on these lawbreakers killing our (and yes i include you in "our") lake!
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Go for it...
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Date:
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5/16/2007 12:31:22 PM
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Have at it my friend. Just for the record I am one of the 'good ole boys' and I have lake property and don't resent anyone who does. I am the ONLY person I know who is in favor of the current growth on the lake.
Did you bother to read the pdf file from the poster below. What you guys are so upset about happened in 2005 and 2006 and five of the six violations were DIRECTLY related to RAINFALL!! And on top of that, corrective actions have already taken place.
So with you I will take fall back position #1:
"never argue with an idiot, bystanders might not can tell the difference"
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL....
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Date:
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5/16/2007 12:32:45 PM
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How do you account for the twenty odd illegal discharges over the past five years with NO action taken by the locals. Sorry, but I'll go with Bob--you can go listen to their same ole BS.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL...
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Date:
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5/16/2007 12:44:48 PM
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There are better forms of torture for politicians than law suits. Lawsuits only allow politicians to waste your money in new ways--w/lawyers.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
LTL
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Date:
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5/16/2007 1:57:37 PM
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Your contention that the Dadeville Wastewater Treatment Plant's problem is lack of rainfall is erroneous. There are multiple serious problems at this facility and throughout the city's sewer collection system which have to be addressed. These problems involve operations and procedures at the plant, an inability to handle overloading during heavy rainfall, inadequate capacity to handle the anticipated growth in the Industrial Park, and an antiquated sewer collection system with major inflow and infiltration problems and undersized lines. Lack of rainfall has probably helped the city avoid getting additional Notices of Violations to the 29-30 they already have.
I too have a strong dislike for knee-jerk litigation to address problems. However, if it were not for an initial small group of concerned citizens and ultimately the "threat to sue' by Lakewatch, the public would not be aware of these problems which have been going on since the early 90's. The Attorney General has now filed suit against the City of Dadeville and this action will most likely preclude any other legal action. Whether the problems are fixed is entirely in the hands of the mayor and council of Dadeville. Don't pray for rain to solve these problems, but instead pray that these elected officials carry out their duties and resposibilities.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
au67
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Date:
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5/16/2007 2:19:26 PM
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My guess is that the city officials will hide behind "pending litigation" to prevent having to talk with the media or public about the issues. The AG probably filed a 'friendly lawsuit' against the city to circumvent a real lawsuit they felt was coming.
Our best bet is a two pronged effort:
1. Get media involvement in the major markets to inform stakeholders of the situation.
2. Demand (write letters) that ADEM hold public hearings concerning the renewal of Dadeville's license to operate the treatment plant.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Osms
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Date:
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5/16/2007 2:30:42 PM
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I agree.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Just a thought....
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Date:
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5/16/2007 2:52:54 PM
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LTL:
I really think you are right about this. We have to understand that the city ultimately wants to comply with their discharge limits, they live in the community, they want clean water like everyone else. Their dilemna is that they don't have the financial resources to immediately fix the problem and more than likely they are left with a problem ignored by their predecessors. Filing lawsuits only ties up their finite resources, distracts them from the task at hand and at the end of the day may only delay the solution. The key is to provide them with sufficient "motivation", i.e., political pain and agony, that will drive them to solve the problem quickly and efficiently. As Frederic Bastiat so aptly put it, "Goverment creates nothing". Whatever money they spend defending against a citizen's lawsuit is ultimatey paid for by us in the form of taxes.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Just a thought....
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Date:
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5/16/2007 2:58:48 PM
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If the 'violations' are so prevalent why were they only cited on six instances? Another issue to research is how does Dadeville stack up against other similarly situated treatment plants. As I read the 'agreement' below it seemed to me that they weren't even cited for the incidents, but a failure to properly report them. Raise all the fuss you want, it won't change a thing. Where would you porpose they get the millions needed to construct a new plant? Most of you are still fuming over your increase in property taxes. It takes money to build new infrastructure. Bottom line is, they only have to keep ADEM and the EPA happy, not a bunch of whiney weekend warriors.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Just a thought....
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Date:
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5/16/2007 3:07:01 PM
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Thanks for the support. I knew there were a few reasonable folks out there. And you are right, they drink the same water, only all week long, not only on fair weather weekends.
Another thing about litigation is it will postpone the entire process. NOTHING will happen while the litigation goes forward, and we are talking years. There would be no sense moving forward with any project because in the end the plaintiffs would not be happy with the 'new' project. No matter how far it went, it wouldn't be good enough because they would have to have more in order to 'justify' their lawsuit. So capital improvements would be put off till litigation is settled.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
LTL
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Date:
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5/16/2007 3:21:38 PM
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You were wrong about the treatment plant and you're wrong about me. I don't whine and I'm not a weekend warrior. I was born and raised in Dadeville and have been on this lake for 41 years. I do my best to be factual with my posts on this board and would hope that you would do the same.
If the City of Dadeville can not afford to fix and expand their infrastructure, why in the world was the Industrial Park located here?
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I also am factual in my posts. I challenge you to find any post I have made that is not. I have in the past posted erroneous info, but also corrected it as soon as I came to know it to be incorrect.
Once again, as I read the 'charges' it all stems from heavy rainfall and infiltration or seepage of outside water into the system. Several measures have already been done to correct these issues. To the best of my memory, redleg started this conversation when someone posted about a film in Sandy Creek. He stated then it was due to drought and decreased water flow. I have not seen him cite ANY facts, backed up by test data that says ANY of the contaminant levels are above acceptable guidelines so far. And once again, when they get there, without any more rain than we are getting, they will increase downstream flows to correct the problem. Then everyone can go back to complaining about water levels.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL...
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Date:
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5/16/2007 4:41:29 PM
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Go back and read ALL of MartiniMan's post. You are slipping and sliding on the issue. There will be no lawsuit, because it is inefficient, costly, and worthless--forget it. Now please explain why the same Mayor has been in office during the whole time the sewer system has had problems and NOTHING was done until the past two months. I, too, am a full time lake resident as are most of the people interested in the problem. Anyway, are property owners that visit and not live here a lower class citizen not entitled to the same benefits as you--do they pay less taxes than you?
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
LTL...
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Date:
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5/16/2007 4:41:31 PM
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LTL, there is no hope for you. You go through life simply playing devils' advocate on every issue. I know your type and your not worth the time.
To all of the "Weekend Warriors" out there, OSMS is dead on and you all know it! If we wait for the Dadeville Politicians to do anything we will suffer greatly and perhaps irreversibly. Outside pressure is the only answer. Evil happens when good men do nothing...
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Just a thought....
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Date:
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5/17/2007 5:50:01 PM
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Bob: Just so I am clear about my position, I'm not implying that we don't need to bring whatever pressure we can. Like you I am not a fan of lawsuits because in my experience with my businesses the only ones that win at the end of the day are the lawyers (and I think you agree with that in looking at your posts). I am also a weekend owner in the Sandy Creek area and I and my family love Lake Martin. I guess I am suggesting we look at the most productive way to apply the pressure on those responsible for the fix. Lets hope its not citizen suits but sometimes that is what it takes. Let others like LTL that want to apply pressure the way they feel comfortable apply that pressure. It may not work but it probably won't hurt the cause. I would say that based on my experience with municipal and industrial wastewater systems that the number of violations is not wildy out there. It's not good, but its not like they are so atypical of a lot of smaller communities that buied their heads in the sand while the train wreck approached. It's time for them to get to work and I will do what I can to help spur action.
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