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| Name: |
HOT ROD
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| Subject: |
Another lie exposed
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Date:
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11/1/2008 5:13:23 PM
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Remember the one about Obama "hating" people in uniform, and making police officers get off of his bus so that he "wouldn't be seen with men in uniform?" Almost immidiately it was confirmed that they guy who sent the original email WAS NOT EVEN THERE!!! But it gets even better, now that the whole story has come out.
Claim: Barack Obama shunned law enforcement personnel by asking them remain out of view before a campaign event in Battle Creek, Michigan.
Status: False.
Origins: Claims about Democratic candidates shunning
members of the military and law enforcement personnel have been a common theme of political rumors since the 1990s, and a prominent (but false) rumor about Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama supposedly exhibiting such behavior towards U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan circulated widely after the senator's visit to that country in July 2008.
The e-mailed item quoted above is similarly themed, positing that during a 31 August 2008 campaign rally at C.O. Brown Stadium in Battle Creek, Michigan, Senator Obama ordered his Secret Service detail to have state and local law enforcement officers get off the bus in which he was traveling before it entered the stadium so "Mr. Obama is not seen with anyone in a Law Enforcement uniform before he gets off or while in the public view."
The e-mail's author, Jason Kern, later acknowledged that he was not present at the event in Battle Creek; he was passing along second- or third-hand information gleaned from other law enforcement personnel
Let me give you some background of this email.
I sent it out to my close co-workers and to the Michigan Tactical Officer's Association Board Members only. From there, it was sent all over this earth without my knowledge. I do NOT work for the Michigan State Police. I work for another agency. The MTOA nor myself make a habit of sending out emails like this. It was basically sent to my friends and one of them sent it out to someone else who sent it out to someone else and so on.
I also WAS NOT THERE. I had spoken with Law Enforcement personnel that their agency was involved with Mr. Obama's security prior to sending it out. My message starts at the "To all" section. I did not go on the ranting portion calling Mr. Obama names either.
If I offended you, I apologize. That is all the information I have on the visit to Battle Creek.
Jason Kern
And as the Detroit News reported, although law enforcement officers were asked by the Secret Service to exit the campaign bus, that decision was not made at the behest of Senator Obama or his campaign, nor was it made because the candidate did "not want to be seen" with police around him:
Battle Creek Police Cmdr. James Saylor told The News that he was the on-site supervisor for the department during the rally, at the city's C.O. Brown Stadium. Shortly before Obama arrived, Saylor said, Secret Service agents asked for "nonessential personnel," including officers, to clear a passage from the spot where Obama's campaign bus would park to the baseball dugout where Obama would emerge with running mate Joe Biden. "We were just basically trying to keep that entry area where he was coming through clear," Saylor said.
The e-mail in question alleges that Obama told Secret Service agents to move all officers behind the campaign bus so that he would not be seen with anyone in uniform. "That is wholeheartedly an untruth," Saylor said. "It was not an Obama call, it was a Secret Service call," made in the interests of security, he said. Saylor said the department's leadership sent its own memo to staff and officers debunking the claims after the e-mail surfaced.
The Battle Creek Enquirer reported similarly:
[Deputy Chief Jackie] Hampton said in a memo to the department that the decision to move the officers was made by a Secret Service agent, and, according to the Secret Service, "the agent made a mistake. He was very apologetic and sincerely appreciated our agency's assistance."
In the memo, Hampton also said Obama's campaign staff "advised that they have nothing but respect for law enforcement and were extremely concerned about the misinformation circulating."
The president of the Michigan Tactical Officers Association (MTOA) offered an apology for the e-mail, stating that he was not present at the event and that the MTOA had no official presence there either:
As the President of the Michigan Tactical Officers Association, I send you my sincerest apology for any misunderstandings of Officer Jason Kern's email may have caused. Officer Kern's comments are in no way a representation of the Michigan Tactical Officers Association. The MTOA is a non-profit organization that provides training and resources to the tactical community in Michigan. We do NOT get involved in politics.
I was not in attendance at the event in question and can not speak about what transpired there. The MTOA does not get involved in politics; we had absolutely no representation at that event, or any other political rally. Officer Kern was on-scene at the event representing the police agency he is employed with; he was NOT representing the MTOA.
The email in question was NOT an official MTOA correspondence.
Timothy Liess
President
Michigan Tactical Officers Association
Last updated: 31 October 2008
The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/michigan.asp
Urban Legends Reference Pages © 1995-2008 by snopes.com.
This material may not be reproduced without permission.
snopes and the snopes.com logo are registered service marks of snopes.com.
Sources Sources:
Berman, Laura. "Bogus Campaign E-Mails Heat Up."
The Detroit News 21 October 2008.
Trowbridge, Gordon. "Debunking a Rumor: Obama and Police in Battle Creek."
The Detroit News 9 September 2008.
Battle Creek Enquirer. "Police Say Obama Didn't Slight Them."
11 September 2008.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
The Right Is Sooo Quiet
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Date:
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11/1/2008 10:20:22 PM
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Hot Rod, when you post the truth the Right hides behind their ACORN trees.
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| Name: |
AUCATZ
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| Subject: |
The Right Is Sooo Quiet
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Date:
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11/2/2008 7:24:38 AM
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GF, you live in the midst of the 'Right'. Most of us were raised in Alabama, have or had middle class upbringing, have worked hard all our lives, go to church most Sundays, etc. We aren't evil or scary - we are just normal folks. Because of my job, I have spent months over the last 12 years in Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Mississippi, and lots of other states. I've found that the folks I worked with there are pretty much just like us. We don't expect the government to take care of us, we expect our savings to be safe, we don't associate with would-be radicals and terrorists. I'm a little taken aback by your criticism of the Right.
After all, what is the Right? Folks who work hard for what they have, folks who don't expect a handout. Folks who give to worthy causes and help their neighbors. Folks who don't believe in abortion. Folks who believe we have the right to bear arms. Folks who believe in the Constitution as it was written - not how it is interpreted some of the time. Folks who don't expect, or want, the government telling us every little thing we should do. Folks who believe the government should be there for support, but not for a handout.
Really scary stuff, huh? You can say we are stuck in our ways, we don't have 'forward thinking' about some things, whatever. I judge folks on their actions and their associations. I look at Obama and see a guy that is suspicious on many fronts. He has over his lifetime made friends with people I would never give the time of day to. He wrote books about it. He isn't concerned about his own family (witness the situation of his Aunt in the U.S. and his family living in poverty overseas). He, in the space of a few hours in one day, supports the way of life of voters in Middle America, then goes to San Francisdo and disses those same people he applauded earlier to the 'Left' voters in California. He has climbed the political ladder by being a Yes-Man to anyone who can help him up another rung. He has no experience to be President. He isn't trustworthy in any sense.
What should I trust in this man? Why should I vote for him? Because he gives a good speech? Give me a break.
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AMEN!
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Believe none of what you hear
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Date:
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11/2/2008 10:22:21 AM
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and only half of what you see.
Wise advice from my best friend's Dad who I admired very much. When stories like this get thrown about I apply this principle. I applied it when that disturbed woman made her claims in Pittsburgh. I apply it when I read anything on the forum which is why I always ask for the source and independently research it. Having said that, disproving stories like this one doesn't mean anything to me because any story about Obama, positive or negative, doesn't change the facts about his politics and world view which are diametrically opposed to mine. He could be the next coming of Mother Teresa but would still not be worthy of my support or vote to a political office.
GF, don't represent our silence on a post as assent. It is simply not a post worth responding to or if it is we may be slow in responding. Got you email and will get back to you today. Were you late or early for Church this morning?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
AUCATZ
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Date:
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11/2/2008 11:56:57 AM
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As a farmer, do you believe farm subsidies that the government sends to farmers to be reditribution of wealth or socialism?
Farm subsidies transfer the earnings of average taxpaying families to well-off farm businesses. In 2005, the average income of farm households was $79,965, or 26 percent higher than the $63,344 average for all U.S. households. Farm subsidies are welfare for the well-to-do -- even millionaire farmland owners such as David Rockefeller and Edgar Bronfman receive farm subsidies.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
I don't!
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Date:
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11/2/2008 12:22:17 PM
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But these wealthy corporate farms have their influential lobbyists that influence both sides of the aisle.
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| Name: |
AUCATZ
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| Subject: |
AUCATZ
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Date:
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11/2/2008 3:59:07 PM
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Well, I'm not a farmer - my Daddy was and all the grandparents were. So we don't get subsidies for the land we own. I do remember that my father got maybe $10/acre to not farm cotton back in the late 1960's for a few years. It wasn't all that much considering the cost to process cotton, and at that time it was (I thought) the government's way of driving up the price of cotton and not hurting the farmer. Do I support subsidies? Depends on what we are subsidizing, and for how long. I don't believe in long-time ones for sure. A couple of years perhaps to help the farmer transition to another crop, but no more. Having watched my father desperately trying to get out of debt from the dairy business, I know the value of assistance, but that is what the Federal Land Bank, etc. are around for, right?
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| Name: |
AUCATZ
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| Subject: |
AUCATZ
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Date:
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11/2/2008 4:02:38 PM
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And I will tell you that my family never got rich from farming. Not in the over 100 years they did it. We managed to hold onto part of the farms, and we hope to leave it to our children. It will be a struggle if the estate tax exemption expires though. Land that our forefathers bought for $1/acre (or less) over 100 years ago will now be assessed at some exorbitant rate that makes it almost impossible to pay the death tax if it is revoked. And that isn't right - no way, no how, no-whoever the heck is in office.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
AUCATZ
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Date:
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11/2/2008 8:11:06 PM
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In 2009, the exemption will be $3.5 million and for dying in 2010 your heirs will be rewarded with NO estate tax. In 2011, it is scheduled to return to the 2002 level of $1 million. I believe we see a new exemption level of $3.5 million under the Democrats beginning in 2011.
I assume the farm has increased in value due to the potential for development. I know you have previously indicated the you have life insurance to cover potential estate tax liabilty. At that point, the cost basis of the farm will increase to market value and the kids can sell it with no capital gains.
You could always consider working with Conservation Land Trust so that the land is never developed but remains farm prorperty.
Life is so complicated when we become successful.
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| Name: |
AUCATZ
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| Subject: |
AUCATZ
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Date:
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11/3/2008 6:52:47 AM
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My parents passed when the estate tax threshhold was much lower. It was a struggle to stay under the lilmit. If the limits aren't renewed, it will be a struggle once again. My situation isn't as bad as many who might lose their land altogether. There is, in my mind, something inherently wrong with taxing estates. Taxes have been paid on that property forever, why punish a family for leaving it to their children? I hope you are correct, that the Dems will renew this, but I've heard otherwise many times. This is one of those "rich" folks topics that comes up all the time with people saying it's a gimmick. Hundreds of thousands of people who have lost their family farms before can attest to this not being a rich thing. <off soap box now>
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