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| Name: |
copperline
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| Subject: |
Here it comes
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Date:
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2/25/2013 9:11:02 AM
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A cut & paste from today's Birmingham News. I remain convinced that while "everybody" seems to want a smaller government, with less spending.... that few of us are aware of what this will mean when govt is downsized and the effects of the reduced govt activity and services can be seen first hand. I think its a case of magical thinking on the part of conservatives who believe govt services are not needed, can be easily replaced by private / for profit initiatives.
Now we'll see if taking the medicine prescribed by the Tea Party really makes us feel better.
• Military funding: In Alabama, about 27,000 civilian employees of
the Department of Defense would be furloughed, saving about $177 million
in payroll spending. Army base operation funding would be cut by $91
million and Air Force operations funding would be cut by $8 milllion. •
Teachers and schools: Alabama would lose about $11 million in funding
for primary and secondary schools. About 150 teacher and aide jobs would
be at risk. The state also would lose an additional $9 million in
funding for teachers and aides who help children with disabilities. • Early education services: Head Start and Early Head Start services would be eliminated for roughly 1,100 children in Alabama. •
Environmental protection: Alabama would lose about $2 million in
funding for clean water, air quality and preventing pollution from
pesticides and hazardous waste. The state could also lose an additional
$1 million in grants for fish and wildlife protection. • Employment: Alabama would lose about $472,000 in funding for job search assistance, referrals and job placement. •
Public health: Alabama would lose about $144,000 for vaccines, meaning
that roughly 2,100 children would not receive vaccines for diseases such
as measles, mumps, tetanus, rubella, whooping cough, Hepatitis B and
the flu. The state also would lose about
$457,000 in grants for upgrades to its response to public health threats
such as infectious diseases, natural disasters and biological, chemical
or nuclear events. Alabama also would lose about $1.2 million in grants
for treating substance abuse, and a $165,000 loss at the state's
department of health would cut HIV tests by about 4,100. • Domestic violence: Alabama would lose up to $102,000 in funds for services for victims of domestic violence. • Senior care: Alabama would lose approximately $865,000 in funds that provide meals for the elderly.
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| Name: |
lakngulf
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| Subject: |
Here it comes
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Date:
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2/25/2013 9:18:02 AM
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So, what the President and the Democrats presented, supported and adopted as a plan will not work for you? Then same should come up with sensible cuts (I should rephrase that, there are no "sensible cuts" because it will affect me). Watching the Govs (rep and dem) talk about affect on states, and "don't cut mine" made me realize we are in thie debt thing, recession, and economic disaster for the long term. I am not sure what the final result will be, but we are on a collision course.
And neither party can take delight in the plight because both got us here, both are protecting their young, and both have no clue how to sell responsibility and accountibility to the public who feed from the trough.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Its a bunch of crap being fed to you
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Date:
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2/25/2013 9:43:15 AM
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Look, the govt in 2013 will spend $15 billion more than they did in 2012, even with the sequestration cuts. That's right copper, $15 billion more than last year!!! Quit believing the lies being told by the Obama administration. Yet another example to provide context. In 2012 Obama cut defense spending ~$460 billion over 10 years....yes, that's right, about $46 billion per year and no stories about 800k employees being furloughed right? And yet with a puny $22 billion cut in 2013 the world is ending. Don't be a low information voter.....think for yourself. Use logic and reason.
All they are doing is trying to do is make this look bad when it is in fact not bad at all. Its a 4% cut in a budget that was scheduled to grow by more than 4% meaning they will spend more in 2013 than in 2012 by $15 billion. Explain to me how they could afford all these people in 2012 with $15 billion less than they will have in 2013?!?!? All they have to do is allow each dept to shift funds around and not one person will need to be furloughed and no changes will occur. But when you need a good prop for a political benefit who cares, right? I suppose the good news is that unlike Beghazi no one will be killed......unless Obama finds it politically beneficial.
This is exactly why we have the kind of leadership in this country with the rubes that believe anything they read.
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| Name: |
copperline
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| Subject: |
Its a bunch of crap being fed to you
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Date:
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2/25/2013 10:20:12 AM
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Well, there is a lot of crap out there... maybe some of it in here, too. I think it's easy for people to believe this is a good thing... especially when they are in high enough income brackets to be somewhat impervious to the changes in govt spending. But I contend that all of us rely more on govt services and funding than we realize... and because the money channels in via multiple state agencies, programs, etc... much of the actual workings of govt funding has become invisible to us. That's allowed the Tea Party types to contend that all govt is wasteful, depleting precious dollars from private sector profits, and that govt spending is responsible for impeding growth of the economy.
Basically, if you are in upper income brackets you will have the capacity for avoiding or mitigating much of the impact of sequestration. Civilian contractors, govt employees may not be so lucky. Elderly folks on limited incomes will feel the pinch, but conservative thinking may not connect the dots. Everybody finds it so easy to support cutting taxes and spending, believing the effects will be nil.
The secondary and tertiary effects of spending cuts will probably come into view a bit more slowly.... For that reason, I don't see a lot of the folks on this forum particularly concerned about the impact this will have. However, I'm betting that the effects will become apparent in ways most people don't expect, and we may be surprised (and upset by) the upcoming changes.
We'll see who the rubes are......
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Its a bunch of crap being fed to you
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Date:
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2/25/2013 10:40:27 AM
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I really get tired of misrepresentations of the "Tea Party" by statements like yours: "That's allowed the Tea Party types to contend that all govt is wasteful, depleting precious dollars from private sector profits, and that govt spending is responsible for impeding growth of the economy."
I'd be willing to be that if you really took a good look at the mainstream Tea Party movement what you'll find is that it represents a reduction in excessive government. excessive taxation, and excessive spending, and I emphasize the term "excessive". Other than a very few who take it too far (there are always those on the left as well as the right), Tea Party types are just good, upstanding citizens who feel the Government is going too far, being too intrusive, too regulatory....and they are just sick and tired of the ever-increasing level that the government is trying to contro our lives.
There is a meeting in Montgomery every other Tuesday or Thursday (not sure which). Believe I'll attend one soon and find out for sure what they want. I would invite yiou to do the same in your locale.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
What cuts?!?!?
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Date:
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2/25/2013 11:03:55 AM
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I told you that the budget will increase by $15 billion from last year. There are no cuts and that is where the rubes come in. This has zero to do with how much a person makes. Someone making minimum wage could figure out that an increase of $15 billion is not a cut. It is not rocket science.
Believe what you want to believe. Frankly, given the sorry state of our govt education system and the sycophantic govt media Obama and his ilk will probably get away with these lies and if the sequester happens they will parade all these whiney liberal govt employees moaning about how their children will starve. And like the govt shutdown during Clinton it will all be a lie. My wife worked for EPA then and before they sent them home they told them they would be paid and they were. So they just got a nice paid vacation which is what will happen this time.
If you believe a budget increase of $15 billion is a cut you are indeed a rube. And you don't want to get me started on what the budget is today versus a short 4 years ago. This is all a bunch of unmitigated crap. Don't fall for it!
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Classic strawman argument
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Date:
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2/25/2013 11:10:33 AM
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What the left does is present a false position of the Tea Party and then argue against it and use the false position as a reason why this group or that group is outside the mainstream. Why let the truth get in to the way of a good Saul Alinsky strategy?!?!? I don't belong to any Tea Party group but I know literally dozens of people that do. Not one of them advocates for no government. That is anarchy and no conservative thinks that way.
Your characterization of them is much more accurate and it is undeniable that the scope, cost and intrusiveness of the federal government has increased dramatically in the last four years from an already overreaching starting point in 2008. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either not paying attention or willfully blind and ignorant. That is not to say that someone can realize this fundamental truth but still like it (definition of a liberal). But to say it isn't true is just plain dumb.
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Copper
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Date:
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2/25/2013 11:10:37 AM
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Has the world come to an end since the "stimulus money" dried up and some teachers and cops were laid off? NO
The effect of sequestration will not even be felt by 99% of the US citizens. o-BAMA is lying and trying to maximize the situation for the 2014 elections. Can't you see that? Remember the Tea Party represents the working, motivated people of America, not the unions, welfare slugs, or guvment salary collectors.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
More ammo on the lies
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Date:
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2/25/2013 4:11:17 PM
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Recall LaHood's dire warnings about air travel that I called out as a lie? Well it turns out that even Candy Crowley called him on that one and he had no response because none was possible. She pointed out rightly that even with sequestration the DOT will have a larger budget in 2013 than in 2012 and that air travel was expected to be down this year from last. Combine a higher budget with lower air travel and it brings the lie to what he said additional delays.
Folks, you are being fed a bunch of crap and even the govt media is calling them on it. And remember, this is nothing compared to the end of March when the CR expires. TOTUS running around the U.S. crying wolf and people will see that nothing really happens when sequestration hits. And when he runs around crying more wolf when the CR is expiring he will really have a problem. All the GOP needs to do is pass a CR in the House at post-sequestration spending levels and any potential govt shutdown will be laid squarely on the doorstep of Obama and Harry Reid where it belongs.
Between this and the much-loved by the left's Nate Silver's analysis of the Senate races in 2014 I am becoming more optimistic about where we are headed. I only hope and pray the better informed American people show up in 2014 and the low-information voters stay home. That way we can truly throw TOTUS on the ash pile of history called lame duck presidents. He can forget about selling access to him for $500K. Billary must be loving this.
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| Name: |
Buteye
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| Subject: |
Copper
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Date:
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2/25/2013 5:00:55 PM (updated 2/25/2013 5:05:14 PM)
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I keep trying to understand what it is that has brought about such a profound change in the way things are so different than they were 50 years ago. I have tried to make sense out of some of the ways we approach things today compared to earlier times. I am going to try to use just one segment of our society to make my point. Take education for example. It seems that with every new president that we must make some monumental change as to what is the best way to teach our children. With Bush it was "no child left behind". With Obama we now must make changes in "headstart" so that we say it is necessary to start public education for our children at the age of four. I wish to use myself as an example to make my point. As I do so, please don't look at what I am about to reveal about my past education as anything special. I grew up as a country boy in north Alabama and was just your normal "everyday" child. My mother and father divorced when I was about three years old so I grew up in a "one parent" home with my mother. I started to school when I was six years old. My mother was a school teacher and for whatever reason she had me skip the third grade. That meant that I went from "printing" in the second grade to "cursive writing" in the fourth grade. I graduated from high when I was sixteen. I enrolled in college when I was still sixteen and graduated when I was twenty. I majored in chemistry with a minor in math and was on the Dean's list throughout college. After graduating from college in 1961, we were deeply engaged in the Vietnam War. I joined the Air Force, attended Officers' Training School , and was commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant. During my twenty years in the Air Force I served on a Missile Combat Crew in New Mexico, worked with the German Air Force, taught Air Force ROTC at Auburn University, and worked at AFROTC Headquarters at Maxwell AFB. During my time in the Air Force I received an MBA at Auburn University and a Masters Degree in Education from Troy University. Again I am not bragging, but trying to make a point that one does not have to begin public education at age four to be successful. By the way, I learned to read from the little paper back "Dick and Jane" books. In my opinion, our federal government thinks we have to invent a "new" way to teach our chldren every few years which seems to keep our education system in constant turmoil. Maybe we need to reintroduce "Dick and Jane" to our educators and have our children reading by the time they complete the first grade.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Head Start is a mess
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Date:
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2/25/2013 5:12:52 PM
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Just look at a recent HHS study that basically concluded that all benefits of Head Start are gone by 3rd grade. By that I mean that by 3rd grade kids who just started in kindergarten do as well as those whose parents put them in Head Start programs. They are a waste of time and money and are basically free child care for parents that work. Probably a better way to get it done.
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| Name: |
lakngulf
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| Subject: |
Head Start is a mess
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Date:
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2/25/2013 5:18:43 PM
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But, Buteye, "you did not do that on your own". ha, just kidding.
There were some key items in your description: Reading, Parent, Parent who taught you to read.
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| Name: |
copperline
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| Subject: |
Its a bunch of crap being fed to you
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Date:
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2/25/2013 5:21:17 PM
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I don't doubt the moral character of Tea Party types, I just disagree with them as I outlined. No derogatory intentions by using the phrase "Tea Party types", either... but I do think I have a correct understanding of their beliefs and intentions to shrink the government. I just don't think the consequences of doing this are well understood. Dramatic downsizing of Washington has been the trade mark of the Tea Party movement, and it has directly led to this point in history. However, the Tea Party is not holding celebratory rallies.... , nor are other conservative groups. They appear to be working on rewriting their narrative instead.
Seems that now that sequestration is upon us, many conservatives are trying to either distance themselves from being blamed for the negative consequences of this, or are taking the position that sequestration is a bogus event altogether. Nows the time for all good conservatives to stand up for what they have believed in, come what may. When the cuts come close to home, no whining or blaming someone else.....
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| Name: |
Mack
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| Subject: |
Head Start is a mess
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Date:
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2/25/2013 6:43:40 PM
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Ability to read Dick and Jane after 1st grade??? Our Public School System is graduating 12th graders who cannot read Dick and Jane. They get a free ride to college on athletic scholarships, however.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Hey Buteye
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Date:
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2/25/2013 7:46:09 PM
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I am quite sure that your mom being a teacher schooled you at home before you entered school. I don't think that is a fair comparison to a child living in a single parent home where the mom had the child at 15 and dropped out of shcool herself. Take for an example back to school night. The parents of higher achieving children are typically the ones who attend. A child needs a home that help and encourage school work at home during the elemetary years. You, obviously, were weell prepared when you entered school. You mom deserves the credit. Others are not that lucky and Head Start is an attempt to level the field.
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| Name: |
lakngulf
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| Subject: |
Hey Buteye
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Date:
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2/25/2013 7:57:33 PM (updated 2/25/2013 7:58:27 PM)
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Parenting could level that field.....just saying. The cycle must be broken. Responsibility and Accountability....we need a headstart for that.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Its a bunch of crap being fed to you
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Date:
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2/25/2013 10:35:42 PM
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I have no problem with the cuts...I do have a problem with the across the board nature of the cuts with no chance for the department head to choose where to cut.
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| Name: |
Buteye
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| Subject: |
Hey Buteye
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Date:
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2/26/2013 1:11:29 AM (updated 2/26/2013 1:21:01 AM)
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Gone Fishin: I disagree with your summation of why I was successful in my early educational endeavors. Several of my classmates came from very poor homes, some from broken homes, and many of their parents did not have a high school education. As I recall, from a class of about 35 students, only a couple failed to graduate. I believe one of the reasons for our success was because our parents wanted us to have a better future than they had. Parents encouraged their children and instilled in them the importance of an education for a happy and successful life. To this day, I still remember each one of my teachers and I remain thankful for their teaching ability and the desire they had to see their students succeed. Also, from your comments, I don't believe you heard the speech given by Dr. Benjamin Carson at the National Prayer Breakfast on February 7th. His mother was one of 24 children and she married when she was fourteen years old. She only had a third grade education but it was her desire to see her son succeed that resulted in him being the head of Pediatric Nuereology at John Hopkins Medical School. I consider his speech to be one of the best summations of what is needed today in our country. Please use this URL(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyyHegP255g) to watch and listen to his speech. I hope you will listen to the speech and then provide us with your thoughts about each of the key points he discussed. Also, you will notice that President Obama seemed a little perplexed as he listened to and watched Dr. Carson give the speech. Note too that Michelle aplauded several times, but the President wasn't quite as gracious.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Oblamer's tour is based on blame
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Date:
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2/26/2013 9:20:07 AM
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That's the problem with the left, they love to lecture us about something they are doing. Why not call out the guy you voted for? He is on a 100-city tour specifically to blame the GOP for something he proposed and which passed in a bipartisan way and given the current makeup of our govt is 2/3rds the fault of Democrats. Pot....meet kettle.
We will worry about our guys and you show some intellectual honesty and admit that Democrats are doing exactly what you claim to abhor. And remember, the GOP has passed multiple budgets in the last several years. How many has the Dem-controlled Senate passed? And how many votes have Obama's budgets gotten in that same time? Answer: None, nada, zip..... Pull the plank out of your own eye.....
Tell TOTUS to get his community organizer butt back to DC to work with Republicans instead of running around the country on his road show where he lies, lies and then lies some more.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Hey Buteye
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Date:
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2/26/2013 6:58:43 PM (updated 2/26/2013 6:59:20 PM)
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"I hope you will listen to the speech and then provide us with your thoughts about each of the key points he discussed."
I agree with everything he said. Why would I not? I recall back in the late 1980s when he separated siamese twins who were head to head and they lived. That was a first.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Have you been drinking again?
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Date:
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2/26/2013 7:39:42 PM
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You keep putting an answer to a post in the wrong place.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Have you been drinking again?
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Date:
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2/26/2013 7:51:02 PM
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Check Buteyes post just above yours titled More Ammo. The thread took a turn to Head Start.........Now back to your martinisssssssss. I am alwaysssss on point buddy.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
I'm still lost...will take your word for it
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Date:
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2/26/2013 8:39:33 PM
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| Name: |
Buteye
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| Subject: |
Hey Buteye
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Date:
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2/26/2013 11:34:58 PM (updated 2/26/2013 11:41:31 PM)
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Gone Fishin. I realize that my last post was in the wrong place. But you need to cut me some slack. Remember, I am 72 years old, learned to read from the "Dick and Jane" books, and don't claim to be very adept in the use of a lot of todays' technology.
With that being said, I am confused by your answer that you agreed with everything that Dr. Carson said. From my viewpoint everything that Dr. Carson said is the exact opposite from what President Obama is doing. My next question: if you believe everything thing Dr. Carson said, how is it that you support President Obama 100%? It looks like I got this post in the wrong place too. SORRY!!
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