Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/6/2015 8:43:57 PM

so glad to know O has our back ; no need to worry--he really told ISIS off ; ??????

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/6/2015 9:00:19 PM

But I am worried about this weather!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/6/2015 9:20:40 PM

Very disappointing Oval Office Speech.  Didn't say a thing we haven't already heard.  No change in strategy.  Just more of the same.

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/6/2015 11:18:39 PM

Well, ya'll make jokes. I really feel mucho maas bueno con terroroti, senor!!

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 7:46:16 AM

Obama:  "Hey Turkey, it sure would be good for you to control your border!"........Duh

Name:	ccman -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 8:50:06 AM

Hussein's only worry about the border is building a dam to stem the water from ice melting due to global warming

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 10:06:28 AM

I watched the speech and don't find anything there that is worthy of all this criticism.   The reality is that the situation in the Middle East is incredibly complex and dangerous, and easily could spin up into an even bigger & more devastating conflict.   It's not as simple as two sides squarely opposed to each other, it is fractured by multiple countries & religious groups with very different agendas... but all having a huge stake in the outcome.   Even within those groups there are critical fractures... not all Sunni's share Daesh' apocalyptic vision,  Turks fear Kurds, etc.    

Let's remember that the reason we did not invade & attack Assad (Syria) is because it was impossible to determine which of the opposition forces would be on our side & worthy of our support.   Let's remember that by dramatically taking out villains like Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi we created the space for Daesh to develop and flourish.    It's just that complicated.

My take on it is that we (that is, Americans) are easily convinced that there are simple, dramatic and forceful actions that can remedy any foreign crisis we choose to get involved with.  We get frustrated when the Commander in Chief can't come up with a catchy, unambiguous & simple pronouncement that leads to a happy ending for all.    We believe in our moral correctness and how easy it is to step into a foreign country with overwhelming military force, kill the bad guys and leave the situation better than we found it.    This is the fluff of US movies & TV, but we really believe it.   Bruce Willis would have had something to say last night that was profound, simple, and perfectly suited to immediately squashing the problem.   Rambo would be able to lead our troops to victory by sheer force of will and his inherent goodness as an American.   

So, no, I want the US to be cautious & methodical about the decisions we make.  I do not favor dramatic incursions into that part of the world without a clear long-term strategy not only for winning, but also for coming back home.   As a nation, we keep finding out that we can't "score a victory" in the Middle East as simply as it is done in the movies, but we keep talking ourselves into returning to try again.

Obama is also very correct in trying to avoid increasing hatred of Muslims in this country and around the world.   We need to be mindful that Daesh' aims to provoke an apocalyptic war between Islam and the rest of the world.... and not help them out.   He is right to remind us not to play into their hands.  

He is right when he asserts that Congress hasn't endorsed the military actions we are already taking.  People who complain about the over-reach of Executive Action should remember that.     He is also right to (again) point out that poor gun control laws in this country make it possible to buy assault rifles and armour piercing ammo.... neither of which can be justified for home protection, or dove hunting.  

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 10:23:46 AM (updated 12/7/2015 11:53:01 AM)

No doubt the issue is complex. No doubt it will take the Best leader to develop a good USA strategy.  We have not had, do not have and may never have a leader capable of weighing the difficulties of the situation for our best approach.  Vacuums are there, no doubt, and we are at fault for some of that. 

I just cannot trust a leader who thinks what weather.com has to say is more important than what home grown muslim terrrorist are plotting under our noses.

I cannot trust a leader who will not admit what the FBI is reporting daily about the extremist association of the two who just created workplace violence (not) in California.

I cannot trust a leader who chastises Turkey for having porous borders.....but does nothing about his own.

I cannot trust a leader who takes credit for some oil tankers being bombed by France when he is holding out bombers back.  For goodness sake, Trump may not know much, and may be crude, rude and socially unacceptable but TAKE OUT THE MONEY SOURCE OF ISIS. 

I cannot trust a leader who wants us to do everything we can to protect ourselves, and then wants to take away my source of protection.

I cannot trust a leader whose reaction to attacks fueled by one's Islam faith is Hey you need to be nicer to Muslims.

Perhaps at this point our best option is "Russia you take them out in Syria, we will take them out in Iran"

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 11:10:44 AM

It was essentially a gun control speech, which is ironic given that California has some of strictest gun control laws in the country.  Dear leader is mentally ill.  That is the only way you can account for what he said.  Even CNN said ISIL's reaction would be to laugh at his speech.  They must be sitting around in their rat hole somewhere on floor laughing at this guy.  The president has on his desk an accurate assessment of ISIL and it demonstrates that his approach is not working, it is failing.  So what does he do?  Triples down on his failed policy toward this growing threat.  What will it take for this guy to understand what is actually going on in the world?  I don't think anything can penetrate his obvious mental illness.  We have a little over 13 months and then he can go on his Hate America World Speaking Tour and hopefully the next occupant of the oval office will not be as stupid, feckless and deranged.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 11:39:18 AM

is Archies new tag 'copperline"

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 11:51:59 AM

I don't think anyone wants to persecute all Muslims for the sins of the extreme; however, increasingly, it is becoming difficult to sort out the extreme from the peaceful.  The Muslim man, who with his wife, brought about San Bernadino, never indicated to anyone that he worked with that he was radicalized.  The man who shared a cubicle with him for three years, said he was a quiet, reserved person, who did not overtly give any indication that that he was radicalized.  No one was worried that he would leave the event and return with his wife and slaughter his co-workers.  Even in the U.S. military the Muslim who turned guns on his fellow soldiers at Ft. Hood, was displaying signs of being radicalized, yet no one did a thing about it, because it would be PC to treat him differently. 

 I remember being on Pakistani Airlines in the early 80's flying to Islamabad, and the men in the seats in front of me were raving about how the U.S. was destroying Pakistan and the the U.S. needed to be out of Pakistan (this was, of course, during the time when the Russians were in Afghanistan and we were helping the Afghanis via Pakistan... which by the way meant we were supporting the Muja Hadim, which was the forerunner of Al Queda).  One thing I think that the general U.S. population realizes that these are emotional people; often not particularly educated, who grew up in stunning poverty that most of us can barely imagine, who have been raised with the idea we are a country of loose morals and big checkbooks. 

So my question is - how do we know which Muslims are okay and which ones are being radicalized; which ones are nice, law-abiding Americans and which ones are building bombs in their garage after work?  And which ones may turn on us becasue they no longer like our politics, our values, our morals, or what some potential candidate for President might say (yes, Ted Cruz said he wants to carpet bomb them and see if the sand "glows" (nuclear option?)

If I agree that our relationship with the Middle East is highly complex economically and politically, then what makes our President believe that by simply being "nicer" to Muslims is going to keep them from being radicalized?

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 12:12:45 PM (updated 12/7/2015 12:20:13 PM)

Doubt it.  Copper is much more civil and backs his statement with thoughtful reasoning, devoid of name calling and such.  I just don't agree with a lot he says because we are completely different people.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	On telling the good guys from the bad guys.
Date:	12/7/2015 1:55:46 PM

My suggestion is that we need to have conversations with Muslims where we live and keep talking to them with the basic assumption being that most people (Islamic and Christian) want to live in peace, raise their children, and have a secure future.    Toward that end, it would be a good idea for all of us to contact a local Muslim, introduce ourselves and commit to mutual respect & peace.

I've worked around plenty of Muslims... around Universities, in hospitals and associated medical fields....   frankly, we never talked much about religion & politics because I was pretty sure my beliefs were inconsistent with theirs.   That looks like a mistake to me now.

By the way, I also avoided talking to many Christians for the same reasons.   To be sure, I have been around far more Christians guided by their fundamentalist ideology & ready to go to war with non-believers than Muslims adhering to radical apocalyptic notions. Religious fundamentalism is the problem here, and the only way to combat it is thru common sense and a whole lot of calm dialogue.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Dunno but definitely don't care
Date:	12/7/2015 2:18:33 PM

I don't read either of them.  Life is too short.

Name:	Old Diver -	Reply
Subject:	Trust
Date:	12/7/2015 2:20:08 PM

   I will never forget what an old Lebanese friend of mine who had fought in the Lebanese Christian Militia, "No matter how well you know a Muslim, never, never, never trust him." 

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	On telling the good guys from the bad guys.
Date:	12/7/2015 2:56:05 PM

Even CNN is saying "You don't see many Christians killing folks in the name of Christianity".  Sure there are thugs of every color, age, sex, religion, etc.  We have one guy to kill folks who had a flag on his social media.  So the flag is considered the source of the harm.  Can we do the same in other killings?

Even CNN was saying last night that the President got a mulligan from his overseas reaction disasters and he blew it again.  Of course, the two guys who used to work in the Obama admin thought he was spectacular!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	On telling the good guys from the bad guys.
Date:	12/7/2015 3:33:32 PM

In general,  I would agree that talking to people is better than not, although it is not my nature to generally ask people about their religious beliefs.  In my limited experience, I have found that fundamentalist Christians were much more outspoken about their beliefs, than the Muslims I have known.  When I did meet people I knew to be Muslims, it was in a work context, and I have to say that they were far more interested in my life and marriage, than they were about my religious beliefs (I once had a Pakistani ask me why my husband let me travel and concluded that he must be a "kind and gentle" husband), mostly because they didn't have a lot of experience with Western women.  As I mentioned earlier, I have heard Muslims speak negatively of the U.S., but I have no idea if that meant that they would grab up a gun and kill us.  I've had Middle Easterners lecture me about the U.S. relationship with Israel too, but I was not under the impression that they intended to kill Israelis or Americans over it. 

I don't think I currently know any Muslims and I have noticed a lack of Mosques here, which leads me to conclude there aren't many around.  But if they are, I have no idea what they are  reading on the internet or social media, and that seems to be the biggest source for radicalization. 

Name:	buzzbuster -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/7/2015 3:35:12 PM

 I don't think it's so much what he said as to what he didn't say. He said the same old garbage as usual. I believe we need to control our borders and stop sending our money to countries that hate us (yes I know some say it's just a drop in a bucket) but a bucket will get full over a little time. Let those people fight for their own country as we have in the past. I want to hear some of the muslims high archy start comdeming the ruthless acts of their religon. I for one are sick of the political correctness. The President is suppose to protect this country over everything else. The government should not be in the banking, housing, insurance (health care), auto and many more business and let free interprise do it's job. We have to much government in our lives and not enough emphasis on protecting the country which should be number on his list.

Name:	Council Rock Doc -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/8/2015 10:29:48 AM

Copperline,

Since when has there been any mention of the concern for hatred of Muslims?  Not from Trump, not from Rubio, not from Cruz.  Obama did not even prepare for his all important Oval Office speech as witnessed by his misstatement that the woman jihadist was admitted to the US under a Visa Waiver.  She actually was admitted by a K1 Fiance Visa.  Susan Rice said this weekend that this administration really did not start concerning itself with ISIL until 2014 when it was on most US citizens radar in 2013.  ISIS has witnessed a doubling of its foreign influx of fighters over the past year.  Is that containment that our President speaks of?

Trump speaks the truth.  Until and unless this administration and Congress gets its act together with regard to Islamic Extremism, no Muslims should be allowed entry.  My and my family's protection outweigh political correctness.

Name:	Council Rock Doc -	Reply
Subject:	Speech
Date:	12/8/2015 10:29:48 AM

Copperline,

Since when has there been any mention of the concern for hatred of Muslims?  Not from Trump, not from Rubio, not from Cruz.  Obama did not even prepare for his all important Oval Office speech as witnessed by his misstatement that the woman jihadist was admitted to the US under a Visa Waiver.  She actually was admitted by a K1 Fiance Visa.  Susan Rice said this weekend that this administration really did not start concerning itself with ISIL until 2014 when it was on most US citizens radar in 2013.  ISIS has witnessed a doubling of its foreign influx of fighters over the past year.  Is that containment that our President speaks of?

Trump speaks the truth.  Until and unless this administration and Congress gets its act together with regard to Islamic Extremism, no Muslims should be allowed entry.  My and my family's protection outweigh political correctness.