Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 9:30:52 AM

It was all theater.  They are apparently ready to cave on a 15% minimum tax on corporations with more than $1B in profit.  Sinema called it commonsense, which of course it isn't.  Even if they don't find a way around it all they are going to to do is pass along the cost of the taxes to their customers.  Corporations do not pay taxes, only we do.  So this will only add to the inflation we are already experiencing as prices rise to pay for these taxes.  Clever way to tax the living he!! out of the middle class where far too many do not understand they are being screwed.

And believe me, this is just the beginning of their caving.  They all realize they only have until November 2022 and they are going out in a blaze of damage to the country.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 9:36:40 AM

Fix 2020 first.  

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 9:47:18 AM (updated 10/27/2021 9:48:50 AM)

And the amount or the faux pay for is nothing.  It's the trojan horses included.

 Unfortunately Mancin is no McCain 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 9:58:07 AM

Don't know about that.  McCain probably would have voted for the tax increase.  Just read that he was knee deep in the fake Russia collusion scam.  

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 10:19:31 AM

oh McCain sent dossier to fbi.

I mean Mancin will not kill Dems agenda like McCain killed GOP 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 11:29:03 AM

Gotcha.  I misunderstood.  You are correct about McCain.  He was a disgrace as a politician.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 12:36:24 PM

McCain was a war hero POW turned traitor 

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 2:21:23 PM

" Even if they don't find a way around it all they are going to to do is pass along the cost of the taxes to their customers.  Corporations do not pay taxes, only we do."

Can you name any corporations that reduced prices when the corporate tax rates were reduced? They used the addiotional money for buy backs and an increase in dividends. Worked great for me, especially the buy backs.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 2:32:28 PM

So what's your point?  They do a lot of things with the cash that isn't taxed away.  They invest in equipment, hire more employees, develop new products, do R&D, buy back stock, etc.  But it's funny how you proved my point.  Even if all they do is buy back their stock look who benefited...the average investor like Goofy.  What a self own if there ever was one.

I would also note you didn't address my primary point.  When taxes are raised on corporations that have to provide a return to their investors, pay their employees, invest in new products and equipment, etc. they simply raise the price for the service or good that we the consumer purchases.  We pay whatever taxes they get hit with...not them.  And when they pay less in taxes we benefit because they have extra cash to hire more people, buy goods and services from the companies we work for, buy back stocks that increases our return on that investment and so on.  

So the question is, who will use those dollars better.....the corporations or the govt?  I know the answer to that because I know how wasteful the govt is.  You on the other hand.....

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/27/2021 6:42:56 PM

Manchin hasn't totally caved yet.  I totally agree with you about the taxes.  I think the only thing that Manchin and Sinema did was pulled it back from what it would have been, without their refusal to conform to the WH.  They've dropped a lot of the climate change, paid leave, medicare expansion, etc.  I'm not singing their praises, but I feel like they have reined in the progressives a bit.  This was going to happen no matter what.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/28/2021 9:23:21 AM

I agree that they are acting as a brake on the leftists worst ideas, but far too many sensible people are placing too much faith in Manchin and Sinema.  And I am still not convinced that they will be able to withstand the pressure that is going to come between now and November 2022 if they become convinced they are going to lose control of the House and/or Senate.  They are going scorched earth like the did to get Obamacare pass.  That's the difference between the evil party and the stupid party....they are willing to get crushed in an election cycle if they can move us a step closer to big government socialism because they know nothing is more permanent than a temporary govt program.  The stupid party worries more about not offending the media or getting harassed by agitators than returning some sanity to govt.  Just look at their inability to get rid of Obamacare when they controlled all three branches despite running on that platform.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	One other aspect of your self own
Date:	10/28/2021 9:26:54 AM

If you enjoy the benefits of the stock buybacks when you cash it in you either pay capital gains tax at 20% or 25% or even at marginal rates.....both of which are higher than the proposed 15% minimum corporate tax.  So this will actually result in lower revenue to the Treasury which is yet another reason why it is a stupid idea.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/28/2021 10:38:39 AM

Manchin has some leverage.  He has said that he has been urged to switch parties and that would really upset the Democratic's tea cart.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/28/2021 12:05:46 PM

I think the most he would do is become and Independent and caucus with the GOP much like Bernie does with the Dems.  Having grown up next to WVa and spending a lot of time there working there are a lot of hard core cultural Democrats that he would lose.  Question he would have is whether he would pick up enough Republicans or conservative Independents to make up for that lost voting bloc.  Reagan pulled it off in California but I'm not sure Manchin can in WVa.  One would think McConnel is offering him the kitchen sink to switch but they also know he would then be a thorn in the GOP's side much like Bernie is to Democrats.  Cause he isn't going to go along with what they want any more than he is with Democrats.  So in the end he may be of more value as a thorn in the Democrats side in the Republicans and a non factor at all if the GOP wins back the Senate.  Then we will be ruled by Collins, Murkowski, et al. as the deciding votes.  Interesting times.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/28/2021 1:24:01 PM

I am sure they would have to promise not to run anyone against him.  Or at the laest a very week opponent.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Told ya so about Manchin and Sinema
Date:	10/28/2021 2:10:13 PM (updated 10/28/2021 2:10:37 PM)

With him being in the Senate at least they can not redistrict him out of his jobas easily as they are doing Kinzinger.

https://www.wbez.org/stories/congressional-map-puts-kinzinger-in-left-leaning-district/08fa3566-03bb-447b-8dc5-679d9fefc39d

But we all know that demonrats would never gerrymander around race or political advantages when they can /sarcasm off