Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/29/2022 11:23:36 AM

You do have full control of your body, always have and always will.

The problem is you want full control over another life that you created because you lost control of your body. That life is not responsible for your poor decisions. There are multiple ways to control your body and prevent the forming of a new life. Failure to do so should not be blamed on that innocent life.

That new life – is not your body – it’s a new life growing inside of you. That new life has no control of its body - And NO choices. You can’t convince that new life to miscarry or commit suicide just because it is inconvenient for you. So, you make a choice for it.

Not your body – but YOUR choice.

                                                                                                      - - author unknown

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/29/2022 2:14:19 PM

That is the libertarian view of the world and like most things in life it is never that simple.  I have a view informed by my religious beliefs and science that life begins at conception and that once concieved it is a human being with a soul and should be protected.  Others do not share my religious beliefs and I get that.  But I have yet to hear someone provide a logical, reasoned and irrefutable stance on the biology side of this.  We are all a clump of cells, we all rely on someone else to maintain our existence and the fact that it is in the womb in my opinion changes nothing.  A newly born child cannot survive on its own any more than a baby in the womb. 

If we changed hearts and minds and we could agree that abortion should be rare and not used as a post-coital form of birth control most of us on the pro-life side could accept that.  But the idea that abortion should be legal up to the last inch of the birth canal is a monstrous idea.....worthy of the eugenics.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/29/2022 8:44:14 PM

I personally think it is my body and it should be my choice.  I think there should be a guideline as to how far along in a pregnancy that abortion is still a reasonable option.  Probably around 12 weeks.   I have never believed that the church or the government should be involved in the decision.  

I have two different friends that had disabled children - severely disabled that will never be at a level where they could live idependently or contribute to society.    Instead their mothers will be without a life because they have to be at the center of the care of these poeple.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/30/2022 8:42:25 AM

short of rape - a birthing person made their choice to have sex.  Life has consequences. 

If the economy turns down should we be allowed to murder children because its financially hard and we have to spend all our time working to put food on the table to feed the children?  If someone loses a job should they be allowed to murder the rest of their family because that would make their lives easier?  If a woman robs a store, should we just say well its her choice she should have no consequences due to her poor decisions/actions.

It takes two to tango, both have responsibilites for their actions, and part of life is dealing with the outcomes of your decisions good and bad.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Does the 13 year old girl raped by her grandpa
Date:	6/30/2022 8:51:43 AM

have full control over her body?  HUH?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	So Phil
Date:	6/30/2022 8:54:12 AM

are you abandoning your buddies and now advocation exceptions for rape?  Sure sounds like it...hope you don have to give up your ''Trump Personality Cult'' membership decoder ring.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/30/2022 9:01:44 AM

Funny way to view a disabled child.  Last weekend we had friends at the lake.  One family has an adopted 11-year that is physically and developmentally disabled.  He is a pure joy to be around and his family is one of the happiest I know.  You see Hound, we get more out of serving and sacrificing than we could ever get back.  Back our selfish society tells us the opposite......it's no wonder those people are so miserable, angry and unhappy.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Any rights for the baby?
Date:	6/30/2022 9:06:52 AM (updated 6/30/2022 9:29:00 AM)

Does a child formed in the womb have any rights?  What is your stance on abortion?   Mine is pretty limited. 

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Does the 13 year old girl raped by her grandpa
Date:	6/30/2022 9:59:16 AM

“Does the 13 year old girl raped by her grandpa have full control over her body?  HUH?” - - architect

* * * * *

The question (actually it was only formed as poisonous bait) is actually quibbling.

Yes, there are those who categorically despise and would forbid ALL abortions. But then, they fit statistically – but on the opposite end – with those who would allow full term abortion.

My wife was, for years a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate; representing the legal rights of the child ONLY). Her observations from legal advocacy with respect to rape, incest, abuse, and poverty (occasionally “all of the above”) would crush even the most stoic of those whose stance is carved in stone.

That notwithstanding, the child in the womb has a future. Such a child will likely suffer beyond what is only imaginable to you and me. The key word is likely. One has only to visit a Girls Ranch, Boys Home, adoption agency, custody hearing, or fertility clinic to realize that likely is a very uncertain term.

When abortion is certain, likely is a moot term. Every one of us knows at least one person who rose from the ashes of an abusive and/or impoverished childhood – a miracle which could have been preempted by termination of the pregnancy.

An act of desperation, is abandoning your unwanted child at a fire station. But, it is a first act of hope… the first and perhaps only step for the child’s journey - successful or not. Therein lies the true value of choice.

God’s hand… whether you believe in him or not… is upon the head of mother and child.

Yes… your body… the child’s body… and YOUR choice.

Most of us realize that the abomination of abortion is not going to be stopped by any laws of any state. Therefore we swallow judgment and intolerance and seek to find a compromise. I tell you THAT is where the reality will set in.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Perspective over Poison
Date:	6/30/2022 10:04:44 AM (updated 6/30/2022 10:05:55 AM)

Well done, Major 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/30/2022 12:32:15 PM

In both cases I mentioned - this isn't deveopment disabled and a joy to be around.  Neither can speak, or learn or really have any conversation. The girl is one of a twin, she has severe Downs, is autistic and is subject to screaming temper fits.    One friend said that while he loves his daughter, she is a drain on him and his wife and society in general, because she does not have any capacity at all.  And the other was a full sized adult who is subject to seizures, who was only born with a small portion of brain.  

I cannot see why someone should be required to birth a "child" that will is so development disabled. Frankly, people with your attitude really tend to tick me off - because you would take away the rights of someone in a situatin you will never have to live with.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	So Phil
Date:	6/30/2022 12:36:49 PM

Do you only care about rape and incest so you can keep your family smaller?

I have never had a problem with rape(Find where I have stated otherwise) - as I have said more then once, when someone is raped, police reports and evidence is obtained - give them a day after pill right then to stop the possiblilty of conception.  Why would you wait 9 months to make that decision?  Why would you wait 9 days to make that decision?

Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then again you seem to have no brain so there is that.  If you read my statement it was consequences of YOUR decision.  Debbie taking on the whole football team without protection is a completly difference case then Suzie got attacked in the park.  In one someone made a decision, in the other it was made for them.  

Also that that point with the day after pill etc - I think that is still considered contraception/prevention vs cracking the babies head open with tools and using the womb vac.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Does the 13 year old girl raped by her grandpa
Date:	6/30/2022 12:38:55 PM (updated 6/30/2022 12:40:12 PM)

If you would keep it in your pants it would be less of an issue apparently.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/30/2022 1:51:42 PM

Like I said, my religious beliefs tell me that all life has value from conception to natural death......even those that are a burden to society.  I mean, why stop at the cases you mentioned?  What about all those elderly in nursing homes?  Why should they be allowed to live and be a drain on society?  Many can't speak, are incontinent and an emotional and financial drain on their families and society. What's the big difference?  Answer...none, unless of course you are that elderly person.  There's a reason in many Scandanavian countries that practice euthasia that the elderly beg not to be sent to the hospital.  In fact, why not people that are on welfare?  What do they contribute to society?  They are a burden to all of us.

As for me personally, I helped to take care of my quadraplegic brother for close to 20 years.  He couldn't work, had to wear a diaper, could barely talk and so on.  We helped him financially, secured a live in caretaker when he was able to live at home, etc.  So don't lecture me about "people like me" as if we have no idea the challenge these people have in caring for someone.  All life has value unless you ascribe to a utlitarian view of humanity which leads from abortion of suspected disabled children to euthanasia of them and then the elderly and worse as eugenics believers will happily tell you.   

Sorry, but I can't go down that road with you regardless of how ticked off you are at me.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	I cast my poisonous bait again
Date:	6/30/2022 3:02:33 PM

You submitted a post which appears to be in defense of the strike down of Roe saying any female always has control of her body.  Again does that include a 13 year old girl impregnated when she is raped by her grandfather? Most republican red state legislators today apparently no longer feel a rape or incest exception is acceptable...Herschel Walker does not even want an exception to save the life of the woman.  When we leave it up to male legislators to decide whether saving a cluster of fertilized cells is more important than the life or mental health of a fully formed and living young woman we are no longer legislating, we are playing God.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	You are poisonous bait -
Date:	6/30/2022 3:11:13 PM

The real question here is : if Antifatech rapes himself - is it considered incest and should he be allowed to abort himself ?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	So you heard from his own post
Date:	6/30/2022 3:12:15 PM (updated 6/30/2022 3:15:07 PM)

Bottom line...Phil does not align with his party and clearly stated he has always believed there should be exceptions to permit the ending of a pregnancy resulting from forced sex.  In other words some embryos can be "murdered" after all.  That's a mighty slippery slope!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/30/2022 3:18:55 PM

Does that mean that illegals who cross the border who can not take care of themselves/require government assistance should be aborted?  Personally I opt to just send them home.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	So you heard from his own post
Date:	6/30/2022 3:25:37 PM (updated 6/30/2022 3:29:39 PM)

Bottom line...Antifatech does align with his party and clearly stated he has always believed there should abortion on demand up through and possibly beyond birth.  In other words all embryos(and pre born children) can be "murdered" period.  Not even a slippery slope, but a vertical cliff.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Any rights for the baby?…of course
Date:	6/30/2022 3:34:02 PM

The question is when is it a baby.  That's for medical scientists and theologians and ethicists to decide...not politicians or law school whizzes.  Most people in this nation do not believe a cluster of cells that cannot survive out side the womb even with medical intervention is a "child".  According to the US Constitution citizenship is granted to anybody "born" or naturalized in the United States.  Holy scriptures of of most world religions, if not the so called followers of those Holy words, designate birth as the beginning of life.  96% of abortions happen well before the point at which the "child" can possibly live outside the womb.  All the court has done is make safe abortion more difficult to obtain but it has not stopped abortion.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Phil is such a sweetheart
Date:	6/30/2022 3:38:39 PM

and posts such intellectually stimulating comments.  Good work buddy...your comments define you!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Any rights for the baby?…of course
Date:	6/30/2022 3:47:16 PM

Children can not surive after birth without help - if a parent allows a child who can not feed itself, take care of itself to die, is it murder or abortion?  That magical tunnel of a few inches is all that seperates a cluster of cells/fetus into a child.  Can you abort children who were not "born" through the magic tunnel -  but removed via c-section ?

Lets hear where you draw the lines!! is it just about being able to survive - what degree of assistance do you consider too much ?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Phil is such a sweetheart
Date:	6/30/2022 3:49:26 PM

as do yours!  

Ill take my "definition" over where you are any day of the week.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Please guide us to any post where l
Date:	6/30/2022 3:51:47 PM

stated or even implied abortion should be available on demand...time to put up or shut up ole buddy!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/30/2022 4:34:05 PM

Nah.....they can do yard work, construction and pick our fruit.....at least that's what the compassionate pro illegal crowd tells us.  But even absent that, I am with you that sending them home is a better alternative.  For sure not loading them into tractor trailers would be a bit more humane.  Democrats only miss the new voters.....we lament the needless loss of life due to horrific immigration policies that are incentivizing them to take these risks.  But the cartels are raking in the cash and love Dementia Joe.

I have to say I get very depressed when I hear the utlitarian argument for aborting babies.  As we see with any moral compromise, once you start down that road the path to perdition gets wider and wider.  What if a woman decides she doesn't want a girl?  How is that any different?  Once you allow someone to make that judgement about another human being there is nothing to stop them from changing the criteria to fit their own needs, wants and desires.  And who are you to tell them otherwise?  You have your own criteria and I'll have mine.

Just look at what has happened with the alphabet people.....we were told all they wanted was the same rights as married people so we allowed civil unions.  Then they wanted to redefine marriage to include them.  Then they wanted to enforce acceptance at the point of a gun.  And now we have transgender madness, calls to legalize sex with minors and all sorts of abominations.  This is what the left and their culture of death and evil does......and all they need is a few well meaning people to open the door for them.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Please guide us to any post where l
Date:	6/30/2022 5:05:01 PM (updated 6/30/2022 5:16:16 PM)

You indicated I diverge from my party, which makes me believe you must not.  Its not that hard to figure that you support the party platform which is abortion on demand, no restrictions.  Unless you want to actually tell us what you stand for - probably not because then you might be seen as deviating from your party, which we all know that can not be tolerated by dimonrats.. and then your comment about me actually not holding 1 belief that some in the republican party would be seen as incredibly stupid.

So enlighten us oh wise a$$!

Prove us all wrong and post your abortion limitations - lets hear where you draw the line from a clump of cells to fetus to child and which can be sucked out and discarded!  Under what situations should abortions be had - 13YO with a judical bypass to keep parents in the dark about the childs medical decisions?  What if the child was raped by her grandpa, the waver would just protect the man who raped her - by definition of the sex with a minor STATUTORY RAPE.  

Glad you support letting Grandpa get away with it, we can understand why you would want to make sure that children do not have to report the cases of rape and incest to parents or anyone else, just as long as the product gets flushed.

You may not like it - but it from the whitehouse just recently

The White House responded to the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade by promoting a website advising children how to hide their abortions from their parents.

“If you need information on your state’s laws or legal help, you may consider this website: AbortionFinder.org,” the Department of Health and Human Services advised in a published release to the press that was also promoted by the White House.

The website informs children 15 years old or younger that parental requirement laws demand that parents and guardians must be involved with the decision to have an abortion.

“If you need to avoid involving a parent or guardian, contact the If/When/How Judicial Bypass Helpline for information about getting a judicial bypass,” the website advises.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	MY BODY - MY CHOICE
Date:	6/30/2022 9:04:41 PM

I'm not trying to change your mind or ask you to go down a road with me.  Just that I know you are a practicing Catholic lets me know that you are against abortion and that is okay. No one will ever ask Catholics to change their views or force them to abort. And I think that is the key - if you don't believe in abortion, then never have one.  But I believe that it is wrong to cut off that option for others.  

As far as the elderly, I believe in euthansia.  i look at my poor MIL, who spent the last couple of years of her life in a catatonic state thanks to dementia.  When she developed pneumonia, the decision was made not to take extraordinary measures to save her life, because she literally had no life.  

When my father passed away in early June, he was 95.  He had muliple illnesses.  When he was admitted to ICU and the Dr. said that he would have to live out his days in a nursing home and would not be able to do much, we elected to let him go.  

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	So you heard from his own post
Date:	7/1/2022 8:20:06 AM (updated 7/1/2022 8:21:08 AM)

so you agree it is murder?   But sometimes murder is OK.  What is your stance on abortion?

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Or a doddering old ewe (you)
Date:	7/1/2022 8:55:34 AM

Evil approaches with tiny steps. For if it stepped at once - right up to you – you would immediately see it for the danger it is.

The wolf is now among the sheep, choosing his meal. By stealth, has he been close by. But, because of his tiny steps, he was undiscovered. The sheepdogs knew, but their barking was dismissed as howling at the moon – so they tied them to a tree.

The wolf’s meal will likely be a lamb.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Or a doddering old ewe (you)
Date:	7/1/2022 11:17:15 PM

Lamb chops with  mint jelly for the wolf. Hmm  hmmm  good.